Thread: Real Estate in Panama

Very interesting Exilio .The pendulum swings strong both ways. Time will tell

Well, I guess investing in real state in Panama is really a good idea, because lots of Expat and tourist rally in that area because of very nice climate and beach front.

Well, I was talking to 2 friends that are real estate agents last night and they both said that people are now OFFICIALLY DESPERATE to sell their places.

Especially those that put a 30% deposit down a few years ago and now they have to pay the 70% balance. Either:

A) They don't have the money.

B) The banks don't want to give them the money.

C) They are hurting and they just don't want it.

So, they are calling my buddies and BEGGING them to sell their places: AT COST (what they paid) or even in some cases BELOW what they paid because they don't want to lose 100% of their deposit.

They expect this to simply get worst as the market gets flooded in the upcoming months with units.

My personal opinion: I highly doubt the market will be able to absorb them all which will create a domino affect in price drops.

If you're looking to buy AND LIVE here for the long haul -- and you know the right guys, good deals are starting to emerge. Keep your eyes open.

Matt

Matt
A real estate man fron Panama contacted me a month ago with the same situation you mentioned with the 30% situation. This property was in Playa Blanca.

My answer to him was why should I bail this poor sole out .Lets face it ,these property's were too expensive 3 yrs ago .

Another thing to consider is rents are coming down, just like they did in Florida. People thought they would make a fortune off of their high-end unit by renting long or short-term. This is still speculation and creates temporary bubbles. If you are purchasing something to live in or that is easily affordable, go ahead and buy. If you hope to get rich from the investment, watch out.

I think the real estate bubble is JUST STARTING to burst here because of the "lag time" effect of the Global crisis.

I think we have a LONG way to go. USA still hasn't hit bottom has published this morning: Home Prices in U.S. Drop Most on Record in Quarter (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

My prediction is prices will keep dropping for the next 18 to 36 months. But what the hell do I know

Matt

Matt, as far as I'm concerned your a smart man an right on .I've been a bottom feeder in the housing market and its paid off over the years .
Mike

Originally Posted by yaya

Matt
A real estate man fron Panama contacted me a month ago with the same situation you mentioned with the 30% situation. This property was in Playa Blanca.

My answer to him was why should I bail this poor sole out .Lets face it ,these property's were too expensive 3 yrs ago .

It makes sense for the seller to sell at cost, but no sense for anyone to buy.

For the buyer it would only be a bargain to take over the payment of the 70%, and the seller lose out on the 30% deposit. That makes sense for both buyer and seller as one has gotten out of the 70% obligation they cannot meet, and the other gets 30% off the developer price.

Trump has about 7 projects on the go at the moment. Dubai, London, Toronto, Mexico, Panama, New York,and Las Vegas. Mexico one is in trouble. Does anyone know how Panama City Trump is doing. It seems expensive but isn't as pricey as the others. Comments and observations will be appreciated. For instance are the properties near the Trump affordable?

A 1981 built home in North Port, Florida with 3 BD Room 2 Bath sold for 50k from a bank . The home originally sold before foreclosure @ 189k . It does need a new kitchen .So whats that 10k . This is a nice home in a good neighborhood.

There is not deals like this in Panama .They're hanging-on and in denial . I'm looking to buy and buying is primarily an investment for me . I don't believe the additude, if you like it, just buy .If I had that additude I would never be retired today .

On the other hand, if you look at the first or second post on this forum in 2007 its quoted that 100k to 150k can get a very nice luxury condo with an ocean view .So in 2 to 3 years its doubled and there's no correction in sight .

Figure that one

You NAILED it.

If you are looking to buy for an investment the USA is WAAAY beyond Panama right now. The USA is probably the BEST place in the world right now to invest to get a good long term ROI (3 to 10 years) on their real estate investment.

The ONLY reason to buy in Panama is because you "really like a place" and that's where you want to live.

Matt

From a recent article on Panama Real Estate Investment Travel Information
Panama Real Estate Investment Travel Information

The Great Panama Hoax - Well-researched (and anonymous) commenter on The Panama Report
First, The Great Hoax says to locate pre-construction projects that are nearing completion, with prices that meet your budget. Contact many Panama re-sale agents as possible and check on Panama real estate sites mercilessly. He says investors should understand that many buyers who put down deposits to buy these apartments cannot close (either don't have the cash to close and/or cant qualify for a Panama mortgage) and simply want to walk away...sometimes with just getting back their deposit amounts and assigning the contract over to you. The investor, in turn, can secure a piece of real estate at 2005 or 2006 prices...today.

TGPH also recommends a smart investor locate completely furnished (from furniture to tooth brushes) apartment rentals where owners had the intention of buying their apartments (either assigning the contracts in pre-construction or upon completion) and could not. "Since more and more of these are coming onto the market as more buildings get completed...there are more to choose from that meet your investment criteria," he says. "Now that Panama has fewer buyers, its sellers are more "hungry" to sell, especially if their apartment is sitting vacant and they have mortgages, monthly association fees, and utility payments due each month. Quite often, sellers will take drastically reduced sales prices to "cut their losses" and the investor can walk into a completely turn-key rental property ready for tenants.

Lastly, TGPH suggests finding a Panama real estate vulture who is able to locate dozens of properties that potentially meet the desired investment levels (preferably for sale by owner), and then offering the owners 25-50% OFF their asking prices. "While 95-99% of these will laugh at you," he says, "the couple that don't...will offer up great deals. Who needs ‘possible' appreciation in the future...when you can walk into it today?"

After watching Florida's housing market go up in flames it was pretty easy to see what was going to happen here. The speculation in the city condos and in the planned communities ($200K+ range) where nobody lived was a sure sign of a bubble that would burst. Now that I live on the Auzero and see neighborhoods that the homes are $100K or less there is one little difference. The difference is people are actually living and raising families in these communities. Some of the cheaper housing tracts are not that attractive and will probably not go up much in value but some are very nice, still reasonably priced, and still have some room to appreciate. Most of these are primarily owned by Panamanians.

I think its still very early in the ball game .Maybe 4th ining as far as the housing, condo market goes .Alot more pain for the sellers .

I think you have many people in agreement with you on this forum. I believe the world economy still has a long way to fall (unfortunately). The current actions being taken by their respective governments by creating more liquidity will have much more adverse effects in the future. If you are looking for something to live in that you can afford, go ahead and buy real estate. If you are looking for investment, my personal suggestion is gold, silver, and oil.

Great information and advice in the last two posts....

It is gonna be a very uncertain future, in my time of studying the markets and trading I have never seen such hard and difficult markets to invest in as this last year....

I also feel that the usa is not out of this mess yet, and all their debt and money printing this last year solved nothing and only made things in the future even worse, and that it caused even more problems down the road.

They could be facing a real depression sometimes in the 2010 to 2014 time frame. This is not over yet, it is just a pre warmer of things to come...

I think also it is very possible that the condo market in Panama could fall 40 to 60% when this is all over....

I would much rather buy in Colombia right now as the prices there are a fraction of Panama's and there is a ton of hotties there to, perhaps even more...

Even the usa house market is a much much better value right now than Panama city....

But I guess time will tell...

Darryl

California is on the verge of bankruptcy .The govenor is going to Washington tomorrow for money .So, maybe they'll be okay for the short term.

The public Employees have outragous retirements .A city in California went bankrupt .The Mayor said we have 3 police forces .One working and 2 retired .
This is tipical through-out the States .

This will overflow into the world ,Maybe Panama. What starts in California usally goes through-out the states .

Exilio where you at, I miss you and appricate and respect your comments.

"Exilio where you at, I miss you and appricate and respect your comments."

He will be here and comment shortly, don't worry..


America is flat broke.... I sold everything there.... Maybe after the collapse in a few years and they go back to freedom and liberty and to sound money and following the constitution it will be good again, but till then, it is like turning into an evil empire, it is scary, even torturing people.

I used to love America for the fredoms... Sad really....

They have just have so many problems coming up.

I just have one more house to sell in Canada, then I will be free to go and do what I want...

I want to go some were with less taxes and more freedom, is that asking for to much?

I would have already bought a place in Panama, but having seen the prices there from my first trip compared to other countries in the area, I not gonna buy till after the bubble totally busts....


Darryl

I am in the US, buying property.
Really.
I return home to Panama tomorrow.





---------- Post added at 08:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

A good assortment of ideas re: Panama investment here:
Insider Investing - Panama's Experts Advise

Originally Posted by exilio

I am in the US, buying property.
Really.
I return home to Panama tomorrow.

I hear the southern markets that crashed real hard are starting to gain something in some places because prices have dropped so much. My personal opinion though is things will be getting worse economically in the US over time and this could lower the price on the market much further? What state are you purchasing exilio?

Florida.

I wonder how prices are in Puerto Vallarta compared to Panama .I'm looking for good and reasonable medical and a pleasant climate .

I look for foreclosures in both countries and can,t find them .

I know them American shooters had second homes in both places an need to unload something. I figure Mx is closer for them to speculate.

*Where* in PV, and *where* in Panama? That makes a huge difference.

Yes, there are some "foreclosures" in PV; they just are rarely advertised as such. I.e., most US buyers don't take out a loan with a US bank to buy a property in Mexico. I don't know how many take loans from Mexican banks, but I'll bet it isn't a big number.

There are foreclosures in Panama, too, of course, but it's very difficult to act upon them unless you are here "on the ground." E.g., the best place for the listings is in the newspapers -- the old-fashioned kind that you hold in your hands. :-)

But in both countries, the foreclosure opportunity is nothing like the US, simply because the banks down here have not made stupid loans. E.g., even when apartment sales prices in PC were topping $2K or even $3K per square meter, no bank would do a loan at more than $1.5K/sq meter -- and even then required 20% down.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

Here are some other, online lists of foreclosures in Panama:

ofertadebienes.com

Caja de Ahorros - El Banco de la Familia Panameña

Banco Nacional de Panamá

(btw, the Spanish word for "foreclosures" is "reposeidos"; literally, "respossessed)

In Panama -somewhere between Playa Blanca and Coronado .In PV I was only there once but I loved the climate and scenery in the winter .

The problems that the states have are not overflown to Panama or Mexico yet .Yet these same Americans have bought in both places and speculated heavily .Kind of like a poker game, on the if come .

I understand what you're saying Amilio and agree .On the other hand, it just doesn't add up to me . Maybe the future will tell.

Every 10 years aprox the Mexican peso has devaluated .This time its been over 15 years an no sign of devaluating. Again it doesn't add up.

This is one of the best no B.S. Panamanian real estate articles I've ever read.

Panama Investor Blog: The current and future state of Panama Real Estate Development

That was a great article, and will likely come true....

Yes Matt ,That was a great article and I appreciate it also.
Mike

I keep pretty informed in the rental market and I really think rents are about to drop in a fairly big way. Personally, I believe the US market has just come to a screeching halt and that global economy problems are starting to effect Panama in a big way. The past month seems to have had some changes occur. You can now get a room at the Veneto for $99 per NIGHT (per advertisement on their website)!! That is a deal for the Veneto.

It's all inevitable. Sooner or later, people get out of the "denial" stage and move to "grief". That's what's coming next: GRIEF.

I think Panama PEAKED in mid 2007 and won't see another peak for a very long time. Panama went from "zero to global real estate hero" in 4 years flat. And 80% of the boom was driven by speculation and greed. That's the facts. I was here from ground zero and I watched it explode and now I'm watching it implode.

I think it could pick up some steam again in 2 or 3 years (if the world economy recovers and prices go down to a level that's attractive again), but people are wiser now (I hope). Speculators will be A LOT more cautious. Rent market will mature and stabilize. Builders will adapt.

Here's another important LONG TERM (6 to 8 years) factor. After the expansion of the canal is done, about 10,000 families will MOVE OUT of Panama (according to estimates of families that are coming to work here).

In fact, a couple buddies who sell real estate are already waiting for that time period. They think that's when the prices will truly crash hard and they want to buy then. LOL.

Honestly, I don't really care which way it goes. I never came here to invest in real estate. I live here and I love it. That's my reality.

However, if I can give 1 or 2 guys and gals a reality check that will save them pain and suffering from investing in the wrong thing -- I'll be happy.

Panama rocks to live if it fits with your vibe.

Panama's "real estate Goldmine days" are pretty much over. So beware of the guys trying to sell you the shovels.

Be wise,
Matt

I hope the rent comes down alot, then I can stay there longer next time...... Last time I was in vegas I rented an almost new 2 bedroom condo furnished for $650 a month.... In Panama it would go for like $1600 to $2000.....

I am in Thailand right now, and got a nice Condo for $475 a month furnished in Pattaya...


Take Care all.