Thread: Real Estate in Panama

Interesting comments from the Motley Fool about the wisdom of offshore real estate investment right now. I've always found Motley Fool to be pretty close to the mark about future financial trends.

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-...oofolrf0010002

Thanks Gordon and Randy -- I just made a small currency play today. I am shorting Euro vs dollar. I guess it is to stop the bleeding on the gold i still hold. What does this have to do with Panama real estate? Hmmm not sure... i just find it interesting the relationship of different currencies and how the panama real estate market will react. I have a LOT to learn. Hey FXTRADER ... you should be able to weigh in here.

I know fx has been real busy lately. I appreciate the link as well Gordon. Good to see I am not the only one advising people to think about what they are doing when it comes to buying real estate. Panama is truly a unique country with many unique qualities that make it enticing. Just be cautious of speculation.

Just beginning my research into retirement in Panama. We live a boating life in the US, a forty foot power boat, and would like to continue this in retirement. Are there areas where we can have a house with a dock? Maybe even with a little land? Or marina developments where we can walk to our boat? Do we give up quiet and privacy for such? What do boating people like us do around Panama to enjoy the boating lifestyle and have a nice place to live?

And...which coast makes sense? Seems Atlantic, but maybe there are reasons to consider the pacific too? many thanks!

The prices in panama still seem to be stubbornly high. The property owners that seem to me to be lowering prices are the ones that own apartments without tax exoneration. So the properties are 20 years old or more.

I have money in dollars, and the decline in the pound, means I could make about £7000, just for it sitting for 2 months. But then the dollar is supposed to strengthen further as the UK economy continues to struggle. But then again, things could change again with this Freddie Mac business in the US. I have given up trying to work out what will happen in the global economy. I read an article just the other day about investing in Tata in India. But today in bengal they are closing their factory because people in the area want their land back!

Harry Browne was right. Now where is his book on how to make money from a financial crisis?

Here is an interesting article on the dollar as it relates to the chinese economy.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/20080...hinese-dollars

I guess for american investors in panama it wont mean much but for anyone from the UK or Europe and elsewhere it could mean quite a bit.

Originally Posted by too222muchcoffee

Thanks Gordon and Randy -- I just made a small currency play today. I am shorting Euro vs dollar. I guess it is to stop the bleeding on the gold i still hold. What does this have to do with Panama real estate? Hmmm not sure... i just find it interesting the relationship of different currencies and how the panama real estate market will react. I have a LOT to learn. Hey FXTRADER ... you should be able to weigh in here.

How the real estate market is going to react to anything but the USD in Panama is beyond me. Being a USD denominated economy, I'd say it'd fluctuate with the value of the USD. All that said, news, fundamentals and all of that do not play into my trades at all! I'm a 100% technical trader. I trade what I see on the charts and don't bother with all of the other confusing mess.

But about your poisition... I've been short Euro and Cable since late July. It's been good thus far and I really don't have an exit signal / scenario yet. I did hop out of my Euro position for about a week in late August. Actually just put it back on 2 days ago. I'd say good call shorting it. If you're speculating in currency for pure profits there are much better pairs to trade IMO. If you're doing it to hedge risk on other USD correlated positions, I'd say Euro would be your best bet.

OK, sorry about that. I do like to talk about trading Anywho... back to Real Estate!

Hi Sunman--

New member here ...enjoyed your post... i may want to come and take a look at your development in early December.

Originally Posted by fxtrader

How the real estate market is going to react to anything but the USD in Panama is beyond me. Being a USD denominated economy, I'd say it'd fluctuate with the value of the USD.

Very good point. This is obviously going to effect the value of income gained on your unit if it is a rental. Now if you feel that the US currency is about to start increasing in value then a rental purchase maybe good? If the value of the currency continues to drop and possibly gets worse then how much of a profit are you making?

I have been informed that the self-solvency investor visa minimum has been increased to $300000.

Originally Posted by zog

I have been informed that the self-solvency investor visa minimum has been increased to $300000.

A LOT of new immigration laws went into effect last month. I believe the amount is now $350K though. Here's a complete list:

http://www.panamalaw.org/panama_immi...ges_May08.html

Hi Fx,

is that not the draft of the law? I was told the final agreed amount was $300000 rather than $350000 - although was from a newspaper so I am not sure how accurate that is :-)

Originally Posted by zog

Hi Fx,

is that not the draft of the law? I was told the final agreed amount was $300000 rather than $350000 - although was from a newspaper so I am not sure how accurate that is :-)

True, it was the draft of the law. I'm not certain of just what the final amounts were. I've actualy heard quite a few #'s, but $350K was what I've heard the most. It's Panama rumor though, so I'M not sure how accurate that is!

Now let's see if Panama is going to change the visa requirements in the next six months or keep them the way they are. This is one of the things that can change the value of real estate real quick. The real estate market is really up in the air right now. I meet people that are saying "BUY BUY" and that rental units are great money makers. I also hear the opposite, "SELL SELL", and that rental income is not increasing.

I hope you can keep us updated on this... thanks, woohoo.

Will do. I personally feel that if you avoid speculation buying you will be fine. After watching what happened in Florida I advise caution. The entire Florida market went down the toilet REAL QUICK because of speculation. There are some similar and some different dynamics at work here. Everything comes and goes in cycles.

Originally Posted by MRWOOHOO

Will do. I personally feel that if you avoid speculation buying you will be fine. After watching what happened in Florida I advise caution. The entire Florida market went down the toilet REAL QUICK because of speculation. There are some similar and some different dynamics at work here. Everything comes and goes in cycles.

This speculation thing really wreaks havoc with the ordinary guy who is just looking for a place to settle down. Not sure if you heard the results of a study released yesterday afternoon regarding Oil future prices. This independant study showed that the oil futures shot up when huge sums of money ( $80 Billion) were invested in oil back about 2 months ago - after which the oil prices shot up to $140+ /barrel. Then a few weeks ago around $60 billion was taken out of that market and the prices went down. OPEC claimed throughout the last few months that it wasn't manipulating the prices and good sense in looking at the market did not show any significant reason for the oil prices shooting up. Bottom line is that the speculators appear to have been the culprits who cause the oil price spike. As a result of their greed, 1,000's of people lost their jobs and there has been nearly irreparable damage to many businesses.

Since it followed the sub prime crash, a lot of ordinary people have suffered greatly.

I wonder if governments will move to build in safeguards to prevent this type of stupid greed from punishing the masses again?

Guess time will tell.

Originally Posted by GordonS

I wonder if governments will move to build in safeguards to prevent this type of stupid greed from punishing the masses again?

Guess time will tell.

Unfortunately it is the same business such as banks, oil companies, pharmaceuticals, that have bought and paid for many governments. Greed has no limits and my experience with people tells me that money is usually worshiped much more than any god in any religion. You can still live very cheap in this country if you want to. It is a matter of exploring and seeing what you like. Make sure you investigate further than the developer's seminar.

So it looks like the US economy is not about to bounce back anytime soon, BIG SURPRISE (not). A side affect maybe many more people in the US moving on down and purchasing more real estate? With the way things are going in the world maybe Panama maintains its status as a refugee haven and the people keep coming??

The financial market is on shaky ground right now and one bad move by the Fed, and it could be scary. I wish I was totally liquid, but looks like I have to ride it out.

We own real estate in a pretty "dull" area (san antonio, texas). By "dull" meaning relatively cheap compared to many parts of the US and Panama, but we have been modestly appreciating over the years (and is now at least Not losing value). The bad part is when you try to move to another market like Panama, you do not have the strong purchasing power. I think I am rambling ....... adios!

You are not rambling, you are just facing the same problem many people are. Not only in the US but in ALLOT of the world. Real estate ownership has turned into a REALLY BIG problem. Especially if you cannot sell it. At least you did not purchase in a "trendy" place that is crashing and burning. Take for instance Miami. The real estate is not a bargain anymore in Panama City. You can find much cheaper with better infrastructure in the USA currently. People are stuck with their homes in many places in the world and they cannot sell. I met a person recently here in Panama. He owns 5 condo's in Florida that are costing him money and he cannot give them away. His solution is maxing out his credit cards and handing the keys to the bank. Either that or he can go completely broke trying to bail a sinking ship.

I met a Russian family today. Actually, I assisted in helping them locate an apartment to rent. They were a young couple, he looked like he was in his mid-thirties, good shape. She looked in her twenties, blonde, very beautiful. There were two kids, one about 7 or 8 years and an infant. The couple was staying at probably the highest end hotel on Balboa with access to helicopter landing pad. Plus they had brought their nanny with them (always helpful). It is quite obvious they are not worried about things like mortgages. They were a fairly friendly couple and she spoke English extremely well. No doubt about it, these Russians are not spending a month in Panama City for the food. They are here buying things, like buildings. Real estate biz is still moving for these people. But then again it is probably "only money."

Originally Posted by too222muchcoffee

Thanks Mr Woohoo. I will try your suggestions. I just wonder if anyone in this forum has used a good appraiser in the David area. I really like to rely on "sold comps" vs "listing prices"; so, i am just hoping there is an appraiser out there that keeps up with "sales".


I know there is no MLS service and I used to face this when looking for comps in very rural communities in Texas years ago -- its just gonna take more digging.

Go with a name you thrust, Century 21.
Ask them!

Go with a name you thrust, Century 21.
Ask them!

I love fishing and the Panamanian Pacific is the best! Look up Pinas Bay and you'll never be the same. 1,200 pound marlings my friend!

Originally Posted by too222muchcoffee

We own real estate in a pretty "dull" area
(san antonio, texas)

I like San Antonio...

but it was in 1985 when I visited.
Is it cheaper than Panama City ?

Because the real estet crisis, US?

Mike

P.S.

Maybe Beef is cheaper in Texas tnan in Panama? :-)

My 2 cents:

SA real estate market is cheaper than the Panama market. I am not an expert on Panama, however. I have only shopped around in Panama for a week -- still an infant.

In my opinion, I would describe Panama prices comparable to the Austin market which is about 25% higher than san antonio prices.

When making this comparison, I am using Panama City and Boquete markets as my reference points, and I know this is a higher price market for Panama as a whole.

There are pro's and con's to purchasing here versus the USA. Boquete and Panama City are probably the most expensive. If you want highlands and want to have convenience of Panama City nearby you may want to look at El Valle?

Thanks woohoo--We got a peek of El Valle, and my wife just said it she needed more of a community, i.e. better grocery store, shopping, etc. It was raining and we were tired and had a lousy guide, so it was not the best day needless to say. We probably did not give it a very fair look.

I plan to drive from Panama city to Boquete in December and plan to look at several spots along the way.

Nicaragua --


I am not well versed at these forums, so this may be going into the wrong category -- feel free to move it Mr Woohoo. Anyhow, I am thinking also about going to Nicaragua to look at real estate. I ve read the prices are reasonable for the scenery you get. I realize the economy is not what you have in Panama -- but i d enjoy hearing feedback from others. I really don t know if we would live there, but do you think it is a good contrarian real estate investment?