Thread: Real Estate in Panama

But anyone can do it.

We only use attroneys to ensure that we are covered legally in a transaction.

There is no reason that we cannot have a standard contract and still use attornies.

I would never advise a seller or a buyer to do away with the use of an attorney.

It still doesnt change the fact that a standard contract would make the conveyance of property much simpler for all concerned.

GSinker -- I'm sure if you paid the right attorney enough money you would have your very own "standardized" contract. Give it a go!

Matt

Matt,

Its not about me having one its about all attorneys using the same.

In Florida and i also assume in most other states in the USA we use a contract called a FarBar Contract. All the clauses are standard and recognised by the Florida Bar.

You can add extra clauses but the majority of those required for a Bi Lateral contract are in this contract.

Its not Rocket Science. It just keeps things simple.

If Panama wants to look and appear to be acting in a legal and self regulating professional manner then the legal Bar in Panama should address this.

More sales would probably be made in Panama which would result in more buyers and that would result in more money flowing into the country.

heck, with a speech like this i should run for office! Whens the next election?

How can you know if the apartment you're buying is exonerated from taxes and for how many years?
Does it depend on the construction year?
Can anybody give me the details.
Thanks.

Does anybody know anything about the Seawaves Tower in Bella Vista.
Prices look very low. Would you buy it now or would you wait for the construction to be finished( next few months).

My personal advice to anybody would be to live here for at least 6 months before making a purchase. I have seen it to many times where somebody purchases and then they decide they would like to live somewhere else. There are condos for sale, everywhere, no need to rush. In the meantime rent.

MRWOOHOO,
I'll buy for investment purposes, not to live there. Where else can you buy a $150k condo and have it rented for $1200. With that income, you can live anyplace you want in Panama. And your money will be safer in real estate than having it in a depreciating dollar. Of course it's only my humble opinion.

I completely agree with the "dollar thing". Your better off buying beer in aluminum cans than hanging onto the dollar. At least you can count on the aluminum being worth something later. I'm still hesitant about purchasing real estate anywhere in the world currently. Although I do feel the Panama is probably the best place to purchase I feel so uncertain how things are going to transition in the world. I also wonder how Panama will be affected? Keep in mind Panama uses the dollar and a massive decline of the greenback against other currencies could wipe out any gains. I personally am a big fan of the concept of gold and silver. I think we both realize the dollar is in a bad situation and gold and silver is probably a good bet. Not to mention it is much more liquid than a condo. Anybody else have some input?

"Real estate cannot be lost or stolen, nor can it be carried away. Purchased with common sense, paid for in full, and managed with reasonable care, it is about the safest investment in the world."



-Franklin D. Roosevelt

Very true, and as long as the condo is almost finished you won't wind up in this situation:http://www.panama-guide.com/article....91111065011808.
I will say after living in Florida for 13 years, prior to moving down here, and watching the real estate bubble burst. What I observed was people became slaves to their property. People wound up upside down in value, taxes are going up, nobody purchases unless they are giving it away at a foreclosure or short-sell. Once again I do strongly agree with getting out of US dollars. Either gold/silver or realestate (in a country with a future like Panama) is a more stable investment. Panama is a very unique country in a very enviable position.

Originally Posted by HOSEM1

MRWOOHOO,
I'll buy for investment purposes, not to live there. Where else can you buy a $150k condo and have it rented for $1200. With that income, you can live anyplace you want in Panama. And your money will be safer in real estate than having it in a depreciating dollar. Of course it's only my humble opinion.

Does anyone know the status of the new short term rental law? Apparently condo owners are banned from renting shorter than 1 year.

Don't forget HOA fees and property taxes. Martinelli changed the law to include land costs for condo owners so even with a 20 years exoneration, you will have to pay something. Also, 2% property tax is a big hit especially if your property is assessed at today's prices which most aren't. I don't think the current government is friendly to foreigners anymore.

However, I agree that your money is better in hard assets versus holding US dollars.

Supposedly short-term renting has been banned BUT I know it is still a popular occupation. Not sure if I would go so far as to say Martinelli is unfriendly to foreign investment? I will say sometimes people in government here make rash decisions (short-term rentals, visa restrictions) and then decide it was a bad idea and reverse things. I think this country understands foreign investment is a huge part of the economy. Martinelli is a biz man, owning major grocery store chain among other things. If he was to squash foreign investment he would be hurting himself as well. Wait and see, there is liable to be some type of compromise reached regarding short-term rentals.

Hi!
Also there is no guarantee that you are going to rent the condo for $1200. There seems to be a lot of competition for condo rentals in the city. There are a lot of more condos becoming available for rentals and it is a renters market right now, especially if the condo has been empty and the owners want some kind of rental income to pay taxes, association dues, etc.

Mary

Mary, you are right there is no guarantee that it will rent for $1200, but very close. Rents are way down from last year's highs, so how low will it go, only the market will decide.
As to the ban on short term rentals(less than 90 days), as far as I know the law was repelled a few days after it was announced.
As to the taxes on new condos, I think it's true that there will be taxes on land value , so expect to pay a few hundred bucks for that.

Looks like real estate in Certain places in Colombia are getting high to.....

Cartagena, the world's biggest real estate bubble



Cartagena, the world's biggest real estate bubble

Originally Posted by BEL-AIR

Looks like real estate in Certain places in Colombia are getting high to.....

Cartagena, the world's biggest real estate bubble



Cartagena, the world's biggest real estate bubble

Looks more like a real estate ad for Colombia . I wonder how much they paid the writer to write it ???
I'll take Panama .....any day !

Although Colombia. has gotten popular the country has never been truly stable in any recollection of mine. You still have armed militant groups such as the FARC kidnapping people. I have heard the AUC might be making a little comeback. There are thousands of displaced people in Colombia. It's still the epicenter for cocaine production and is now getting threats of war from Venezuela since they decided to let the US military in. Panama, on the other hand, is an established world banking and corporation hub. Real Estate in Panama does still sell although at a reduced price. As Colombia's bubble burst's I don't see much of a reason for a rebound.

Does anybody that is in the real estate biz in Panama have any new input regarding condo and home sales? Just looking for some feedback regarding sales. Curious to see if people are starting to buy again.

Mr. WooHoo,
I've been looking here in PC for a condo for the last 2 months,and I can assure you that sales are picking up. There were at least 2 condos in Cangrejo that I was interested in for months. I called the owner of the first one and he told me that he just sold it this week. The same thing happened with the second condo, the agent told me yesterday that it was sold last week. I even went to the Procasa office to ask if they still had a condo at the Destiny on Balboa avenue(the small ones) and the answer was everything is sold out. So being here on the ground, I can assure you that things have changed and the real estate market is improving.

It is good to hear that things are moving again with real estate in Panama. At this point we know it isn't just speculation anymore. I was reading an article about Dubai and they mentioned that property values have dropped over %50 from last year and people are just leaving their cars and mortgages and heading out of the country.

Yes it's true that it is not speculation any more and this is a very healthy thing for the real estate market. People are after good deals ,even though there aren't too many out there. Just check the ads in encuentra24 or prensa and you'll see those ridiculous prices. I guess most of the people who want to sell aren't desperate because you see the same price after more than 6 months of not being able to sell. The developer prices are insanely high, maybe they believe that if they wait a little longer they will be able to sell high. So the bargains are the resales.

Panama is pretty unique and unlike Dubai has more to offer than just condos. The banks here were more responsible with lending and hence they are not all upside down. Currently the country of Dubai is having to be bailed out. Once again it is VERY good to hear that people are buying again.

I don't have any opinions on this but I can report that a good friend of mine is shutting DOWN his real estate company because of lack of sales. And a couple of months ago, another "big firm" called it quits.

Also -- rental prices are still dropping. Another friend of mine just got into a BRAND NEW 2 bedroom for $1100 a month. So that's great news...

HOSEM1 might be on the cutting edge of the next swell -- or maybe because you went after 2 smoking deals that everyone went after those 2 deals?
I certainly don't know...

Matt

Of course nobody knows what will exactly happen in the next 12-24 months,but I don't think we'll have a dramatic soar or fall of prices. It also depends on the area you want to buy. Personally I wouldn't touch the San Francisco area with so much construction there. Cangrejo and Balboa avenue would be much safer to buy. There arent't too many condos being built in Cangrejo and it's a very well sought area. Balboa avenue facing the ocean is the most valuble real estate in PC and there is very little space left there to build. A wealthy panamanian that I know who is in the real estate business told me that around 1500 very wealthy venezuelans are moving here each year and some are buying multiple condos,so that's another factor to consider.

I think the next three months will give us a good idea what will happen in Panama. The world economy is still in a transition process. Having spent now 5 weeks in Florida I see many problems that are not going away but picking up speed. I probably would not spend much time and effort advertising to the US group.

The market is still very very very slow. The only people buying real estate in PC right now are Venezuelans. They are buying condos in the $100K - $250K range. Outside PC, is even slower than PC. Beach areas in the Pacific coast, like Gorgona, Coronado, Punta Barco, San Carlos, etc. are not moving at all. IMHO Prices are still very high.

The Venezuelans that haven't left yet better pack their bags and pull out their money (although their money just got CUT IN HALF).

He has already devalued their currency by HALF a few days ago.

A couple of months ago -- he created a new law preventing Venezuelans from spending more than $1500 when they visit Panama and a few other countries.

His power greed is growing minute by minute. He just claimed a French company Exito earlier today.

What's next?

Here's a CRAZY possibility: Chavez shuts down the doors on venezuelans spending money or taking their money out of the country.

I wouldn't count on Venezuela being a long term client of Panama.

All around -- I think HOSEM1 is correct. The market probably won't shift much either way: up or down. Rent seems to be steadily declining.

That being said: the market is almost dead except for a few sales here and there according to several of my real estate and "ex real estate" selling friends.

Matt

I still think it is funny to see properties on sale for more that 1 year and the asking price remains the same. It almost looks like a lot of people here advertise a property for a ridiculous high price just to see if the can find someone with more money than brains.

Anyway, I think the market will remain pretty much dead for the first half of 2010. There are quite a few buildings that are supposed to be finish this year. When all those new units hit the market, I think will see prices going down.

This is just my opinion and it is worth exactly what you are paying for it.

I thought prices would have gone down a while ago, but it hasn't really happened. This market has a different dynamic and it's defying logic. Maybe because most of the real estate construction is concentrated in the hands of a few wealthy families who are willing to wait a long time till things turn around? I guess if there is a bust, we'll see it by the end of this year when thousands upon thousands of units will hit the market.

The best strategy is to get aggressive, see loads of properties and LOW BALL every body. Sooner or later, you'll get a good deal. Just DON'T buy into the price that you're seeing. Panamanians expect you to hustle them price down. So give them what they're expecting...

Matt