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About LinkBacksHi folks,
I want to ask that whats the trend of real estate business in the future life and where you see to this in the next days?
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Hi folks,
I want to ask that whats the trend of real estate business in the future life and where you see to this in the next days?
Troll!
dead slow , TOC is crashing along with most of the gated communities . no land is selling . not a good investment if you are thinking a project .
Now is definitely not the time to start a development. Be careful with anyone who hasn't started building yet, because when the subway and canal start construction the prices of steel and concrete both are going to skyrocket.
On the other hand, if a pre-sale developer has already started construction and has already required supply agreements for his materials, you'll be in a good position.
I don't know if the market is "dead slow" permanently. It's still the rainy season with this late-year downpour. Wait until the sun comes out and we get through this next dry season. I bet there will still be plenty of retirees coming down here looking for property. They're tricking in every day even with this rain.
Why would steel go up? It's all imported anyway and Panama has lots of import capability. And the canal isn't big enough to effect worldwide steel prices.
its not really the price of steel or cement or anything else relly going up , it is the USD going down thus taking more to buy the same product , and with Ben running the Fed , and his money printing you can expect so see a lot more inflation , as every dollar he prints makes yours and mine worth less .Originally Posted by jonr
I agree. Panama's demand for copper, steel and oil couldn't move the global price needle at all. In fact, commodity prices are far more affected by demand, not USD. Right now, all three of these are about 25% below their 2008 peaks (although well above their 2009 lows). Until global demand rises (and assuming a need exists for the project) and with the USD acutally having appreciated lately due to Euro mess, now is a good time to build.
The biggest cost driver in Panama for the indefinite future is labor -- 7% raises already expected for 2012 due to shortages of workers as Panama effectively has -0- unemployment. If anything, rising labor and historically low interest rates suggest building now makes more sense than waiting to do so next year (again, assuming a viable project).
You must be selling properties in Panama.... Are you a real estate salesman?
"If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear.
No I'm not a salesman, but I work with them almost every day. Many of them have a pessimistic outlook on the market over the next few years, and I tend to agree with them.
At the same time, a pessimistic outlook on THIS market is much less of an issue than a pessimistic outlook in most other countries - the deals are mostly pretty damn good.
The issue I've seen is that developer after developer is building a new high rise or community with a lower and lower price point, trying to undercut the competition. To me this is backwards.
Building more housing generally means that there should be demand for that housing, and thus the prices can afford to go higher over time because there is always demand. Instead, more and more projects are being built or planned but the prices are not appreciating. The undercutting is going to screw over the market, I think, when five years down the road all of these empty, new, 115k condo units are sitting around and and the 250k units are five years old and empty as well. It just seems like piss poor communication to me.
But for potential buyers this is great - owners are getting worried at the market or are getting pissed at Panama and taking off, leaving behind homes a good deal below the should-be market value. I was just saying that it's not a great time to invest in a property and expect to flip it down the road (for many people, not all). Buying a property now is much more a lifestyle decision.
Our friend Kent Davis' reflections on Panama real estate and 2012 predictions.
2012 Panama Real Estate Warning & Opportunity | Investment
Dark clouds ? Khathief has defaulted, how worse do you want it?However there are some dark clouds surrounding Newland Developers, the promoter and construction firm responsible for the project. In particular, an overdue bond payment and rumors of a default are making a lot of Trump buyers nervous and new buyers apprehensive.
And no signs the sky is clearing anytime soon either.
Is assessment of the PAST is fairly accurate and unbiased. His assessment of the future is another story.
its awesome info..great post being uploading here,,its really understandable..thanks for sharing such an awesome info with us..
The smart money is renting and watching what is unfolding. Remember when you buy something in Panama if you don't get screwed by the contactor or actually receive a deed you still have to consider can you sell it in the future given the overbuilding that is occurring. Just rent and keep your assets safe!
Fleeted -- you may or may not be right.
The "smart money" has been waiting for the market to correct now for 3 years. Rent is VERY high (compared to the price of buying). It seems the prices are not going up or down and have stabilized.
I don't see anything on the horizon that's going to make the market go down any further. Do you?
i know this was for fleeted , but if you follow the Baltic Dry Index it might give you a heads up what is in the pipeline , and its not pretty .
fleeted (02-11-2012)
Rents are high that is true depending on where you want to live. If a person chooses a new Trump apt or similar then of course that will be pricey. I have a friend who lives in El Cangrejo in one of the older buildings but in a nice 2 br apt for $580 per month. It is all what someone wants. As far as possible events on the horizon that could or will effect Panama's real estate market we just need to look at what is happening in the western world. Europe is collapsing under the weight of it's debt and entitlements and the U.S is not far behind them. Trillions More wealth will continue to dissapate as the collapse continues. People see they can get much more home for much less money in the U.S. then they can in Panama. Panama has also become known as a place were there is no rule of law (the U.S. also now) where people are cheated and scammed with no recourse. There is a glut of apt and condo's on the horizon in PC. The thing with Panama is the fantasy is better than the reality for most people, not all but most. People fall in love with the natural beauty of Panama and then move there only to eventually learn that the culture and lack of service is to much for them to cope with. These people then have to try and re-sell in an overbuilt market. Altus de Maria comes to mind. Men who move to Panama with their wives soon learn that the women won't be happy there, missing family back home and dealing with the aforementioned problems. People who rent can leave when they want with no strings attached. Panama believes it is immune from the problems of the rest of the world but that is simply not true. When the collapse hits the U.S. and consumer spending tanks even more Panama will see a decrease in canal traffic and revenue. Of course all the debt from the current expansion of the canal, subway, and many other projects will still be on the books long after their completion. Looking at the larger picture I think it is wiser for a person to rent a modest apt and still enjoy Panama vs buying into a project and getting raped by the monthly fees as well as taxes and other expenses. What is the rush to buy into an overbuilt market with the Western world teetering on collapse?
Thx.
Thx.
I think Kent Davis is right--2012 will be an interesting year for property in Panama City and there may be some bargains in some areas of the city as inventory builds. But, right now it seems to me from only casually following the market that overall prices are off the bottom. That doesn't mean it's a "good investment" or that it will appreciate at all. But, second homes and retirement homes should not be viewed as investments, IMO. Buy wisely, buy where you want to live, and don't follow prices like it's the stock market. It doesn't matter in the short-term and no one can state with any assurance what five to ten years from now will look like. Definitely rent if your time horizon is five years or less or if the real estate purchase represents a significant portion of your assets. Now is not the time to own more house than you can afford and people in the U.S. are finally figuring that out--even record low mortgage rates are not tempting buyers.
fleeted (02-11-2012), No-Non-Sense-Matt (02-11-2012)
Matt and Balabeacher both make excellent points and the tax advantages are a draw for Panama. I am probably more pessimistic than most folks I will admit. I look at lots of factors and possible events that could negatively impact the world economy. One major factor that most people are ignoring is the pending war with Iran. Regardless of whether people are for or against it the effects could cripple western economies. If a tanker is sunk in the strait and oil stops flowing then there will be big impacts in the west. $6-$7 a gallon gas with long lines and rationing possible. Already the jobs have gone to Asia and the wealth transfer from energy will only accelerate. People in the west are becoming more poor everyday, many just don't realize it yet. Matt is correct heavy hitters will flee the U.S. to avoid the coming VAT taxes, carbon taxes and every other tax scheme that will be dreamed up. Balabeacher's point about not tying up a large percentage of ones assets in real estate is also good advice. The heavy hitter's Matt refers to understand economics and money that is why they are heavy hitters. The average Mom and Pop caught on vacation in Panama and falling prey to the real estate scammers will lose their shirt IMO. Whomever can preserve wealth in the coming decade will emerge in a position to buy depreciated assets. I don't believe the crisis is over only delayed by trillions in stimulus money. There are many ways to make money in this type of enviroment and different people employ different strategies, I personally don't feel PC real estate presents an opportunity for wealth creation.
Debt Slavery: 30 Facts About Debt In America That Will Blow Your Mind
This illustrates what overconsumption has done to the western world. These people will continue to be debt slaves. The middle class will continue to shrink going forward.
nakedguydb (02-12-2012), No-Non-Sense-Matt (02-11-2012)
It seems to the "experts" that it is smarter to rent than buy 100% of the time. I wonder how the overpriced overbuilt Panama Market is a good investment? News Headlines
The 2 markets are very different from each other. The US is sinking while Panama is booming.
Also do not forget that you can get close to 10% return in Panama by renting your property. And another very important thing that you should remember is the 20 year tax exemption in Panama while in the US, the property tax is extremely high.
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