Thread: Extradited to france

Ex-Panama dictator extradited to France

Monday, 26 April 2010 21:19

WASHINGTON--Former Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega was extradited on Monday to France where he has been convicted on money laundering charges, according to U.S. law enforcement and airport officials.
The former army general and one-time CIA informant, now 76 years old, was taken from his jail cell and put on board an Air France flight in Miami due to arrive in Paris on Tuesday morning.
Noriega, who finished his U.S. prison sentence for drug trafficking two years ago, has remained in a Florida prison while fighting his extradition to France. His attorneys argue that as a prisoner of war he must be sent back to Panama.
"No one from the State or Justice Department has had the common courtesy to call us and tell us," said Frank Rubino, Noriega's main U.S. attorney. He said he learned that his client had been bundled aboard the flight from reporters. "They just ignored us," said Rubino.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton signed the extradition order earlier on Monday, said State Department spokesman Andy Laine. A Justice Department spokeswoman declined to comment.
Noriega was convicted in absentia in France of laundering cocaine profits through French banks and using the money to buy three luxury apartments. However, the former Panamanian strongman can seek a new trial once he arrives in France.
He had challenged his extradition to the U.S. Supreme Court, but the highest court let stand a ruling by a federal appeals court that the U.S. government can legally send Noriega to France without violating his rights as a prisoner of war. The U.S. appeals court had rejected Noriega's claim that his extradition would violate his rights under the Geneva Conventions, which govern the treatment of prisoners of war.
The U.S. government has supported France's extradition request and said the Geneva Conventions do not apply to Noriega's case.
In February 1988, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration had Noriega indicted on federal drugs charges relating to cocaine trafficking and money laundering. The U.S. Congress imposed economic sanctions to press him to leave power.
With its 100-bank financial center, Panama was used to launder bales of drug cash through banks and as a center for the processing and transshipment of cocaine, with multimillion dollar kickbacks going directly to Noriega. Once a U.S. ally, Noriega was captured in Panama in January 1990 two weeks after U.S. troops invaded the country in the largest American military intervention at the time since the Vietnam War.
After being brought to Miami to stand trial, he was declared a prisoner of war. He was convicted there of drug trafficking, racketeering and conspiracy in 1992.

I guess buying an apartment in France is a bigger crime than to torture and kill people.

Besides, he has already been convicted of what the French are going after him for in the US - who cares if some of the money was laundered through France.

This is a BS. Shame on the USA.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

I guess buying an apartment in France is a bigger crime than to torture and kill people.

Besides, he has already been convicted of what the French are going after him for in the US - who cares if some of the money was laundered through France.

This is a BS. Shame on the USA.

What the hell are you talking about??? He was convicted of drug smuggling in the US not money laundering!! The bastard should be sent back to Panama and let the Panamanian locals deal with him!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure he wouldn't last too long..maybe an hour or so.....

mmm The US did knew, from the beginning about his drugsbusiness, they never did something against him because he was a way to good spy for the USA, untill he was doing "things" (like Contadora)unliked by the USA they captured him on a very brutal way (invasion 1989). Noriega wasn't a nice guy, but what about the USA?

Not sure exactly what he was convicted of, but he tried for drug smuggling, racketeering and money laundering.

I guess it would safe to say that the money laundering count could include buying a few apartments in Paris (as per how you go about it).

They are convicting him for the same crime is different jurisdictions.

Obviously his next stop should be Panama as you say.

Originally Posted by Brampton Mike

What the hell are you talking about???

At least the food in prison will be better...

I see a couple of issues. First, the US invades a sovereign state because they don't like the leader (drugs, I guess). Then they put the guy in jail for violation of US law. By some tortured logic, Panama was a country where you could violate US law as the leader of the country. How would we feel if the Chinese or Brits invaded and arrested Obama for violating their laws?
The whole mess is disgusting. By the logic used here we could pretty much take over most countries under some pretense or other.

Originally Posted by Forrest

I see a couple of issues. First, the US invades a sovereign state because they don't like the leader (drugs, I guess). Then they put the guy in jail for violation of US law. By some tortured logic, Panama was a country where you could violate US law as the leader of the country. How would we feel if the Chinese or Brits invaded and arrested Obama for violating their laws?
The whole mess is disgusting. By the logic used here we could pretty much take over most countries under some pretense or other.

Yes, the U.S. does this all the time to other countries. The CIA was behind many coup attempts, including Hugo Chavez. The U.S. put puppet Noriega into power, but Noriega started to not follow orders, so the U.S. govt. manufactured a huge negative P.R. campaign against him to gain popular support to invade Panama. It was all a farce and I've read reports that up to 10,000 Panamanians were killed in the invasion. The U.S. is behind many of the well publicized terrorist attacks, but other countries are as well including Israel. Most terrorist attacks are state sponsored false flags. If you don't know what that is, look it up. It will open your eyes to the real world that we live in which is completely opposite of what we are taught in school and on tv.

I don't know where all of you are getting your information. Noriega was charged with drug smuggling, racketering and corruption. He held that country in fear for years. He was a dictator. How do I know this? I was stationed at Ft.Clayton Panama during the invasion and my wife is Panamanian. He was all for himself. Now Panama is thriving and has so many new construction projects since his departure. In fact, we will be moving back down there at the end of this year. Take Care....

For me, the issue isn't whether Noriega was a nice guy. I am sure he wasn't. The issue is whether Uncle Sam should be deciding which crooks would be best to put in charge of another sovereign country. I know there are differing views on this and I am glad he is gone. I just think these principles matter.

Noriega was not elected in a fair and free election of the citizens of Panama, so his dictatorship was not legitimate. I suppose one could say that the U.S. should mind its business no matter what and let dictators have their way. Maybe Hitler should have left alone since he was the leader of a 'sovereign' nation. Sometimes it is critical to stop a criminal before he can do more harm.

Absolutely correct. Just one problem. The US cannot be the policeman of the world. It is not a perfect world. I am sure you could compose a long list of violent, vicious nut jobs we need to dispose of. Is it racism that we take out the western Noriega and leave the African Mugabe in Zimbabwe? (I doubt it, but certainly the guy is a monster.). Should we take out the middle east potentates because they mistreat women? What about governments that just mismanage everything and cause huge poverty for their people. Should we invade Argentina so we can finally straighten out their economy (even though we are messing up ours)?
Where do all these good intentions end? Certainly Panama is better off without Noriega. So maybe we shouldn't have helped him come to power in the first place.

Exactly Forrest! Hey and about that being the policeman of the world, who invented that doctrine wich was against any intervention in latin america both by Europe and The US?

I just finished writing a paper on Panamaricanism and I'm writing my final thesis about the doubious relation between the US and Panama/Noriega. A very interesting source of information was "Killing Hope: US military and CIA interventions since World War 2" a book by W. Blum (2003) and ofcourse the documentary "The Panama Deception" by Barbara Trent.

Originally Posted by phillip marlowe

Noriega was not elected in a fair and free election of the citizens of Panama, so his dictatorship was not legitimate. I suppose one could say that the U.S. should mind its business no matter what and let dictators have their way. Maybe Hitler should have left alone since he was the leader of a 'sovereign' nation. Sometimes it is critical to stop a criminal before he can do more harm.

No offense, but who put G.W. Bush in jail for entering into the illegal Iraq war? No one. The problem with you Americans is that you assume the U.S. is always the good guys. It's not. The U.S. has done serious attrocities around the world throughout history. Dropping the bomb twice on 2 populated cities targeting civilians is not only inhumane but a crime against humanity. Military targets are fair game, but not civilian targets. No one questions the highly barbaric behavior of the U.S. other than non-Americans who are on the receiving end of their injustice.

Felicity: The US has dropped more than two bombs on more than two cities. [Even though I know you reference the atomic bomb]. How about the fire bombing of Dresden which was not even in the history books they taught me in HS and college? I had to read Vonnegut to even know about it. No, the US has not been the 'good guy'. We should recall Jefferson's notion of being friendly to all without meddling.
Annepannetje: Thanks for those references. I will check them out.

There's one crucial, though forgotten & tragically watered down caveat re 'world policeman'; the UN was created almost specifically to remove leaders threatening either their own citizens or posing threats to neighbors. This is (was) part of the UN's mission and the language exists in its charter. Language created to prevent another Holocaust, genocide, and the same language Sadam would have been charged under.

If the UN was not dis-functionally impotent NK would have a new regime. Iran would have a new regime. Asses needing kicking would be served.

Everyone plays nice or they get the ax. That's the way it's always worked in your neighborhood. That's the way it's supposed to work in the world. The UN is supposed to be the cop. All the powers signed on. Go read the charter.

If the US did not play cop the world would be another post 'Simpson verdict' LA, or another post flood New Orleans;
No law = no Law.

re US bombing this and that; that's what war is about. It's delusional to think an enemy would not employ like tactics in war against the US or it's allies. (reread that last sentence). The US did not start that war, but for the sake of saving US lives, allies lives & even Japanese lives US generals would damn well end it. Live with it.

I'm sick to death listening to more silly, droning anti-US dreck. Yes, the US is guilty. Guilty of countering covert and overt Soviet, socialist tactics.

Now try swallowing this guilt: 85-100 million deaths are attributed to the spread of communism and other socialist propagation the last century - within a span of only 50 years. fyi, that number grown daily in closed societies. People are naive to think it doesn't.

Now who's the bad guy? Who's talking or writing a thesis on that murky topic? Which country has always been the #1 anti-commi power on Earth? The US; guilty as charged.

I agree 100 % with Mr. Nixon.

What it was about was basically, do you extradite a person to a country where he e.g. shoplifted or where he killed someone?

Originally Posted by Felicity

No offense, but who put G.W. Bush in jail for entering into the illegal Iraq war? No one. The problem with you Americans is that you assume the U.S. is always the good guys. It's not. The U.S. has done serious attrocities around the world throughout history. Dropping the bomb twice on 2 populated cities targeting civilians is not only inhumane but a crime against humanity. Military targets are fair game, but not civilian targets. No one questions the highly barbaric behavior of the U.S. other than non-Americans who are on the receiving end of their injustice.

Since you brought up WWII, I don't suppose you have any idea of how many civilians the Japanese killed throughout their occupation of the various islands in the Pacific? How about how many they executed on mainland China?

If memory serves me correctly, Japan attacked the USA without provocation.

You know what they say, when you f**k with the bull, sometimes you get the horns! It's unfortunate the citizens of Nagasaki and Hiroshima had to have an atomic bomb dropped on them, but it was the quickest and arguably the most humane way to end that conflict.

It's laughable what some conspiracy theorists will say. I'm a pretty liberal American and have lived all over the world including Europe, Asia, and South America, and one thing I have learned is that there are always nuts out there who are anti-American EVERYTHING (especially in Europe). They can't look at history with any balance whatsoever. Even when you try to have a reasonable discussion about whatever (WWII, 9/11, Latin American history, etc.), the conspiracists will always perpetuate some absurd story against the US that borders on paranoia.

I'll be the first to admit the US has done some negative things in our own self-interest in the past, but name one country that hasn't? And name one country that wouldn't have made the same or similar choices if they had possessed the same power and resources? Sorry folks, but we're all human and all basically the same in the end.

By the way, I live in Panama and have NEVER heard anyone speak anything but disdain for Noriega. Anyone who believes that Noriega had a positive impact on Panama probably thinks that Chavez in Venezuela is also the "champion for the poor".

Originally Posted by TennVol

Since you brought up WWII, I don't suppose you have any idea of how many civilians the Japanese killed throughout their occupation of the various islands in the Pacific? How about how many they executed on mainland China?

If memory serves me correctly, Japan attacked the USA without provocation.

You know what they say, when you f**k with the bull, sometimes you get the horns! It's unfortunate the citizens of Nagasaki and Hiroshima had to have an atomic bomb dropped on them, but it was the quickest and arguably the most humane way to end that conflict.

Japan attacked a military installation which is fair game. USA could have unleashed hell on all Japanese military sites in retaliation rendering them ineffective. Murdering a few hundred thousand civilians in the course of seconds is not humane whatsoever and it is disgusting that you act so non-chalant about it.

FYI Roger, what they teach you in school and on main stream media is nothing but propaganda. You will never get the true story from them. Please don't insult people who know better than you. People who dug deeper to get the facts. People who know that the laws of physics cannot be violated. People who do not want to believe the lies like you have chosen to. Believe what you want to believe. You have every right to. But please refrain from ad hominem attacks against people who know more than you.

Originally Posted by Richard_M_Nixon

There's one crucial, though forgotten & tragically watered down caveat re 'world policeman'; the UN was created almost specifically to remove leaders threatening either their own citizens or posing threats to neighbors. This is (was) part of the UN's mission and the language exists in its charter. Language created to prevent another Holocaust, genocide, and the same language Sadam would have been charged under.

If the UN was not dis-functionally impotent NK would have a new regime. Iran would have a new regime. Asses needing kicking would be served.

Everyone plays nice or they get the ax. That's the way it's always worked in your neighborhood. That's the way it's supposed to work in the world. The UN is supposed to be the cop. All the powers signed on. Go read the charter.

If the US did not play cop the world would be another post 'Simpson verdict' LA, or another post flood New Orleans;
No law = no Law.

re US bombing this and that; that's what war is about. It's delusional to think an enemy would not employ like tactics in war against the US or it's allies. (reread that last sentence). The US did not start that war, but for the sake of saving US lives, allies lives & even Japanese lives US generals would damn well end it. Live with it.

I'm sick to death listening to more silly, droning anti-US dreck. Yes, the US is guilty. Guilty of countering covert and overt Soviet, socialist tactics.

Now try swallowing this guilt: 85-100 million deaths are attributed to the spread of communism and other socialist propagation the last century - within a span of only 50 years. fyi, that number grown daily in closed societies. People are naive to think it doesn't.

Now who's the bad guy? Who's talking or writing a thesis on that murky topic? Which country has always been the #1 anti-commi power on Earth? The US; guilty as charged.

Wars are fought for profit. Central banks, big oil, military industrial complex all profit immensely from wars, not to mention political leaders who get their cut of these profits. That's why wars are instigated. It's an ugly truth that most people cannot swallow.

That's right Roger... Looks like Noriega will repeat Pinochet's fate, or almost. The latter at least died outside of prison bars.

Originally Posted by Richard_M_Nixon

If the US did not play cop the world would be another post 'Simpson verdict' LA, or another post flood New Orleans;
No law = no Law.

Complete and utter hog wash. U.S. only cares about its self-interest which is looting the resources of other countries. Whatever it takes for the CIA to insert a puppet leader to change laws favorable for corporations to penetrate their market. It has nothing to do with helping anyone. Spreading freedom? That is a joke. Look at how your freedoms in America are eroding. Is your Constitution still valid? If you can't even keep your own house in order, then how do you expect to clean up the act of other countries? Regardless, you have no authority to enter a sovereign country and force a way of life down their throats. It's no different than socialists who think capitalism is bad and they want to help you Americans by invading your country and installing a pro-socialist leader... wait a minute, that just happened!

Felicity, I’m not sure where you received your education, but your teachers neglected a few facts regarding WWII:

The Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese.

R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. "This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture."[28] According to Rummel, in China alone, during 1937-45, approximately 3.9 million Chinese were killed, mostly civilians, as a direct result of the Japanese operations and 10.2 millions in the course of the war.[29] The most infamous incident during this period was the Nanking Massacre of 1937-38, when, according to the findings of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, the Japanese Army massacred as many as 300,000 civilians and prisoners of war, although the accepted figure is somewhere in the hundreds of thousands

Historian Mitsuyoshi Himeta reports that a "Three Alls Policy" (Sankō Sakusen) was implemented in China from 1942 to 1945 and was in itself responsible for the deaths of "more than 2.7 million" Chinese civilians. This scorched earth strategy, sanctioned by Hirohito himself, directed Japanese forces to "Kill All, Burn All, and Loot All."

Felicity, if you’re up to it, please explain to me how the US was the bad guy when we detonated two atomic weapons to end the war.

We killed a few hundred thousand in a few seconds. The Japanese murdered MILLIONS of CIVILIANS from 1937 to 1945. I fail to see how the US is the bad guy in that scenario?

FYI Roger, what they teach you in school and on main stream media is nothing but propaganda. You will never get the true story from them. Please don't insult people who know better than you. People who dug deeper to get the facts. People who know that the laws of physics cannot be violated. People who do not want to believe the lies like you have chosen to. Believe what you want to believe. You have every right to. But please refrain from ad hominem attacks against people who know more than you.

I appreciate your permission to believe what I want to believe, Felicity. That is very kind of you. You must be fascintating company at dinner parties.

Since I happen to be one of those "brain-washed Americans", I am sure I have no credibility in your eyes anyway, so stop being so sensitive. Hey Felicity, did you hear that Neil Armstrong's walk on the moon was a hoax?? It defied the laws of physics!

Seems to me Japanese AND Americans were not very nice. Things are seldom as simple as they appear on the surface. There is a whole lot more depth to all this than can be resolved on a forum. Bottom line: governments can be and often are very very inhumane; to their own people and to others.