Retiring to Panama

[jrmanville]

Aloha,

My wife and I are just beginning to explore the possibility of retiring to Panama and I have a few questions.

We currently own a condo in Kailua Kona, Hawaii and, while it's a very nice place to live, even with the vog, it's also a very expensive place to live. The prospect of being able to live comfortably on $2000 a month(excluding housing expenses) is very appealing to us, assuming this is a realistic expectation. Is it?

My wife would like us to purchase a house that we could convert to solar electricity and reduce our carbon footprint as much as possible. I've seen several homes on real estate sites that could do the trick but I have some questions:

1. The ones that I've seen always seem to have bars on the windows and massive gates. Is crime that much of a problem or are there just certain areas that one wants to avoid?

2. How hard would it be to find a contractor that could do the modifications?

3. Finally, from what I've read to date, there seems to be a requirement in place that any mortgages have to be completely paid off by the time the borrower reaches the age of 75. Is that a hard and fast rule or are there ways around that? If we moved at this time, that would mean that we'd be stuck with an 18 year mortgage and correspondingly much higher monthly payments.

Aloha and mahalo.

[miracle]

Yes, you can easily live in Panama on $2,000 per month right now. In a few years, who knows? Due to its currency Panama is certainly vulnerable to massive inflation, even more so than other countries in the region.

If you spend some time in Panama you will probably want to have a massive gate and probably even bars on the windows. Not doing so would probably make you an easy target (depending on the neighborhood). There is crime and I'm told that after a while your mind adjusts and you no longer sees the bars.

About the carbon footprint thingy, a one-way flight from Hawaii to Panama certainly has a much larger carbon footprint than living there (in a "normal" non-solar house) for 20 years.

I don't know about the mortgage requirements. But if that is the case, consider renting, it might be cheaper on a month to month basis.

[jrmanville]

Does anyone know where I can find a complete listing of rental properties? Usually I browse the classified sections of newspapers but can't find them on the sites that I've accessed.

Mahalo.

[Panamax]

Does anyone know where I can find a complete listing of rental properties? Usually I browse the classified sections of newspapers but can't find them on the sites that I've accessed.

Mahalo.

Try this website http://www.panamarealestateconnection.com

A short video to whet your appetite...

[zog]

If you are looking for places to rent, this should be a good place to find something...

http://www.encuentra24.com/clasificados-panama-en.html

It is my understanding that if you own a place, for one person $1000 a month will have you living the good life. But with two people maybe you will need more, but obviously not twice as much.

rents will obviously depend on where you intend to live.

[jrmanville]

Thanks everybody for the info.

It all looks pretty promising but I have to admit to being a bit put off by the bars on the windows and gated properties. I've never had to live under those conditions before. Is it really that big of an issue? Are there areas in the country that a gringo would be well-advised to avoid?

If the average Panamanian makes about $350 a month, it sounds like poverty is probably an issue even if the dollar goes further there.

[jrmanville]

I answered some of my own questions by reading the messages in the "Is it worth living in Panama?" thread although any further input would be greatly appreciated.

Mahalo.

[Panamax]

...Are there areas in the country that a gringo would be well-advised to avoid?

Yes. El Chorrillo...

[jrmanville]

Pardon my ignorance, but where is El Chorrillo?

I've also read some warnings about avoiding Darien province,at the end of the Pan American Highway. Supposedly Colombian guerilla and drug-trafficing activity have made it a very violent,albeit beautiful,area?

Gracias and aloha.

[dsc]

Pardon my ignorance, but where is El Chorrillo?

I've also read some warnings about avoiding Darien province,at the end of the Pan American Highway. Supposedly Colombian guerilla and drug-trafficing activity have made it a very violent,albeit beautiful,area?

Gracias and aloha.

I've found this map pretty good when I was learning the different barrios (neighbourhoods) of Panama City:

http://www.hostelbookers.com/hostels...nama-city/map/

Casco Viejo/San Felipe can get grubby if you get off the tourist track. Same thing with surrounding Santa Ana. I was on the Central Ave pedestrian mall in Santa Ana a couple times when I was down a month ago. Fine in the daytime, but not where I'd want to be at night.

Chorrillo is even worse. I found this by Googling "Chorrillo Panama City" just now: http://www.boqueteguide.com/?p=1497

It'll give you an idea what it's like anyhow.

It's true what you say about the Darien too. Even if you are an ardent outdoor-explorer type, there are better, safer places one should go..

[jrmanville]

dsc,

Thanks for the links. The boqueteguide.com was very cool. Gave me a pretty good feel for the city.

Do you know anything about Santiago? There are some very reasonably priced properties that I've seen there and it looked like they didn't even have bars on the windows. Safer?

[Panamax]

Pardon my ignorance, but where is El Chorrillo?

El Chorrillo is the slum district in Panama City that was bombed by Uncle Sam in 1989's so-called "Operation Just Cause."

[Panamax]

dsc,

Thanks for the links. The boqueteguide.com was very cool. Gave me a pretty good feel for the city.

Do you know anything about Santiago? There are some very reasonably priced properties that I've seen there and it looked like they didn't even have bars on the windows. Safer?

Look, Pal, give your concern about "bars on the windows" a rest; that issue was blown way out of proportion!

[dsc]

dsc,

Thanks for the links. The boqueteguide.com was very cool. Gave me a pretty good feel for the city.

Do you know anything about Santiago? There are some very reasonably priced properties that I've seen there and it looked like they didn't even have bars on the windows. Safer?

Nope, sorry.

I had to look up where Santiago was, as a matter of fact.

[jrmanville]

Panamax,

"Look, Pal, give your concern about "bars on the windows" a rest; that issue was blown way out of proportion!"

Okay, Pal, don't get your panties in a bunch (I always wanted a chance to say that!). Geez, talk about touchy. I was just commenting on the fact that a lot of the homes advertised, especially in the Panama City area, seem to be little fortresses. Unless you are fortunate enough to live in an upscale area or want to live in a condo.

You're not in development by any chance?

[jrmanville]

dsc,

Does it make sense to you that I should be able to buy a nice house in Santiago for under $100k? Is there really that much of a difference between the rest of the country and Panama City?

Mahalo.

[Panamax]

Panamax,

[/B]Okay, Pal, don't get your panties in a bunch (I always wanted a chance to say that!)...

...You're not in development by any chance?

You may say that all you want, but the expression (verbatim) is "don't get your pantyhose in a bind" directed at females. And the only development I'm in is that of common sense...

[jrmanville]

aaa

[jrmanville]

Not to get pedantic, but I think it's actually "panties in a bind" and I've also seen it as "panties in a bunch". Pretty sure I heard John Wayne use it in a movie.

Sorry I apparently got off on a wrong foot with you. All I'm really trying to get a feel for is the safety of the country. I'm sorry if the bars comment offended you but I really do see a lot of pictures of houses with that feature. As such, it represents a different reality than I'm familiar with. I gave up on Costa Rica because of an increase in crime and have heard that Panama is safer. Just trying to verify.

Aloha.

[Panamax]

Not to get pedantic, but I think it's actually "panties in a bind" so I guess we're both wrong.

Sorry I apparently got off on a wrong foot with you. All I'm really trying to do is get a feel for the safety of the country. I'm sorry if the bars comment offended you but I really do see a lot of pictures of houses with that feature. As such, it represents a different reality than I'm familiar with. I gave up on Costa Rica because of an increase in crime and have heard that Panama is safer.

Aloha.

No, you didn't. Everything's cool. I took no offense, nor should I, or anyone else for that matter. It just seemed to me that you were unduly preoccupied with the bars; that you were missing the "big picture." But, I reckon my perceptions could be off the mark too, so let's just leave it at that and call it a day.

[GordonS]

From my own personal travel and living- abroad experiences, I don't recall any country now without bars on windows and locks on doors.

Maybe some remote islands where everyone knows everyone...

Locks and bars are a part of life today because of the "critical times" we live in. Basic security precautions are necessary everywhere.

[dsc]

dsc,

Does it make sense to you that I should be able to buy a nice house in Santiago for under $100k? Is there really that much of a difference between the rest of the country and Panama City?

Mahalo.

I'm no expert (I've only been to Panama once), but, yes I think you can get a nice house outside of PC for less than 100K.

As long as it's not a 'hotspot' (examples come to mind like Boca del Toro or Boquete -- perhaps El Valle), there is a difference between PC and the rest of the country. Which kind of makes sense -- PC is the capital & business hub of the country, after all.

I just Google'd "real estate Santiago Panama". It dug up Encuentra 24 as the first link -- I've used them lots to look at real estate in PC & elsewhere. There aren't too many places listed, but I see a few that looks reasonable & under 100K:

http://www.encuentra24.com/clasifica...ry-410-en.html

Google digs up many more links for real estate in Santiago, but as anywhere -- 'buyer beware'..