Thread: recommended Panama banks for remote banking?

Which banks in Panama can be recommended for a Panama corporation account where the corporation does not have a signatory resident in Panama, and therefore unable to physically go in and take care of banking matters?

I suppose I'm asking if there are Panama banks which...

• have acceptable Internet Banking
• also allow wire transfers via Internet Banking
• don't charge ridiculous fees for the smallest things
• have a secure Internet messaging service direct to bank personnel
• have personnel good with solving issues via electronic or even voice communication
• on top of all that also leave you with a generally good feeling about being with them?

Or am I asking too much?

I have been reading many posts on this PanamaForum about people's banking experiences in Panama. I'm honestly VERY hesitant to open a corporate account in Panama if it will require me to fly in ever so often to deal face-to-face with the 'right' person.

So far the experiences posted here simply confirm the advice to rather open an account in Europe or elsewhere where the service and mindset is better.

But of course it is never good to generalize and I also do recognize that most often people post when having problems... so I'd like to hear some good news and perhaps a recommendation or two, if any, please.

Cheapest outgoing wire fee I know is $80-$90 (including the money that disappears on the way). Incoming wires start at $15 or so. There are usually 3-4 days delay before incoming wires are credited. To get banking business done in Panama exclusively by phone and email.... well, not sure. If you can even open the accounts. I can get new accounts for a new corp in 2 hours, but if you show up from out of nowhere with no connection to Panama and 3 nominee directors, good luck. I know several people who have such foundations and corporations, but have never need able to open any accounts. Maybe you can own 1 property with it, but ongoing operations would be a nightmare.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

To get banking business done in Panama exclusively by phone and email.... well, not sure. If you can even open the accounts. I can get new accounts for a new corp in 2 hours, but if you show up from out of nowhere with no connection to Panama and 3 nominee directors, good luck.

Just assume the account is already open and let's talk about day-to-day banking operations.

Are there Panama banks which cater adequately for remote banking via Internet?

They are not specifically catering to anything. It depends on the bank and they all have their special fees, features and limitations within the features. Banco Nacional has no online banking at all. Banco Universal does not allow international wires online, but have a giro feature so you can pickup checks drawn on a US bank. Maybe you can convince someone to allow you to work by fax. Credicorp for example has international wire online, but charge $120 for outgoing. Some banks may be lower, but then they might have a 4 % debit card fee (such as Balboa Bank and Trust). If you call around to check what the wire fees are in Panama they will just give you a number. Only reliable way is to open an account and find out.

I thought I had found a good option with Globalbank and got an account there. A few weeks later they slashed their interest rates by 27 % and cut the benefits for their cashback credit card by 50 %. They also have a daily MAX limit at 5,000 dollars for ACH transfers - this is driving me nuts.

I work with 6 banks, dump the worst one every 1-2 years (which means I leave 20 dollars just in case) and rotate.

Best wishes, Ed
PANAMA BANK GUIDE - LIST OF BANKS IN PANAMA

Originally Posted by Florian

Just assume the account is already open and let's talk about day-to-day banking operations.

Are there Panama banks which cater adequately for remote banking via Internet?

If you have access to an HSBC bank in your home location, check it out. I have had good luck with them. So far I have had positive results to all your list of questions. It is easy and inexpensive to wire money in or out especially if you are a premier customer when it is free or very inexpensive. It is expected that Panama HSBC will be on "World View" in the first quarter of 2011. When this happens, you will be able to see all your accounts on line in one location and will be able to transfer money electronically between accounts without the need for wire transfers. I have not tried to get a corporate account. For a personal account the HSBC bank in your area can do all the paperwork to set up the account in Panama. You do not need to go to Panama. Maybe they can do this for a corporate account. The only hiccup I have had is clearing up wrong charges to the credit card. You can see my comments on this in another thread on this forum. Getting this sorted is still outstanding.

It's been 3 weeks and your incorrect credit card charges have not been corrected yet? That would count for 3 hickups then.....

You have no guarantees whatsoever that it will be free to wire money in and out of Panama for free to your accounts in various countries with HSBC.

Have you ever sent an international wire transfer with them?

A couple of years ago HSBC in Panama sued one of their clients for $5 millions for complaining about their services and fees on Yahoo newsgroups. I believe the $5 million is still frozen and HSBC is still pursuing this lawsuit to the best of my knowledge. To actively go after $5 million in damages for Yahoo posts would, in my opinion, be equal to try to turture and kill someone.

Originally Posted by malibubarbie

You do not need to go to Panama. Maybe they can do this for a corporate account. The only hiccup I have had is clearing up wrong charges to the credit card. You can see my comments on this in another thread on this forum. Getting this sorted is still outstanding.

I have had an account at HSBC Panama for two years. Wiring money in was no problem, I have not wired money out. I also used them for a home loan which was o.k. but not great. Depositing paper checks from the U.S. has been a problem. They want you to only deposit them in your home branch where you opened the account..this is a pain.

If you want a bank soley to wire money in or out, they are probably fine but if you want full service bank like in the states to do business here I would say definitely not. Customer service is not good..even if you are a Premier Client. I have had a lot of headaches with them regarding day to day issues.

Let me know if you find the best bank here..I am still looking.

Ed is always a great source of info on this topic. I have paid particular attention to his thoughts on the matter. I have a feeling it'll be a headache for me in the future, but if I can learn from his experiences it may help... a little. Hahaa.

A friend of mine likes BBVA.

Has anyone tried to apply for a US ITIN solely for banking purposes and open an account in the US for a Panamanian corporation or foundation? I was told by JP Morgan Chase in Miami they can do it if I apply for a number from a NAFTA member.

That would be the bomb for online banking.

^My only issue with that is that I would prefer my money to be in a Panamanian Bank, not a US bank in the future. Privacy, protection, etc...

Global is pretty good. They accept all checks. Wire money either direction. Credit Unions pay up to 8.5% interest but do not make loans.

Forgot to mention that I have a HSBC USA Premier account but it does not mean much here. They want only local checks. HSBC Panama is pretty worthless.

Global has a daily $5000 local ACH limit. That is complete BS and I cannot use them due to this. Their interest rates are not very good: Global Bank Corporation - República de Panamá

Also, they were just downgraded by Fitch. I am not sure what you mean by all checks - US and Panamanian I guess?

Credit unions DO make loans. They could pay up to about 8 % if you invest at least 100,000 dollars for 5 years in a plazo fijo.

Originally Posted by Panamaman

Global is pretty good. They accept all checks. Wire money either direction. Credit Unions pay up to 8.5% interest but do not make loans.

So what bank do you recommend ed?

I mean, for someone not seeking a loan, and probably only interested in moving $4k-$5k/mo into the account from a stateside account.

Use the one that is closest to where you live. Credit unions are best for savings, but not very transparent and probably subject to more fraud risk - also they only do manual banking and don't accept foreign checks to my knowledge. For better interest you could try some of the smaller (and riskier) ones like Banco Trasatlantico and Banco Delta. Multibank is paying the best interest rates for savings account from the A rated banks.

Panamanian banks are just a necessary evil really. All of them are garbage.

Originally Posted by CerebralPrimate

So what bank do you recommend ed?

I mean, for someone not seeking a loan, and probably only interested in moving $4k-$5k/mo into the account from a stateside account.

Originally Posted by malibubarbie

If you have access to an HSBC bank in your home location, check it out. I have had good luck with them. So far I have had positive results to all your list of questions. It is easy and inexpensive to wire money in or out especially if you are a premier customer when it is free or very inexpensive.

I spoke with people at HSBC in Panama about opening a business account there and was told that they now will only open an account for companies actively engaging in business transactions in Panama (and these transaction will be subject to Panama income tax). I spoke with someone at their USA corporate offices about branch locations in the USA and was told than my business offices had to be within 10 miles of the branch office so that their people could do an on site inspection.

HSBC is definitely off my list of possible banks and I am beginning to wonder if it is even possible to work remotely with any bank in Panama and conduct my business, which includes a critical need to be able to easily initiate third party wire transfers.

Originally Posted by Florian

Which banks in Panama can be recommended for a Panama corporation account where the corporation does not have a signatory resident in Panama, and therefore unable to physically go in and take care of banking matters?

This may be off on a tangent depending on your specific scenario Florian, but consider banking in a jurisdiction other than Panama when your corp is in Panama - tho no harm in opening an account with a Panamanian bank regardless. There are plenty banks who have online facilities and in English language where they will answer questions and deal with issues remotely. Panamanian banks are not exactly renowned for service issues.

That said, I want to meet any banker holding funds and better a face to face visit is done initially. Alternatively, if this is not convenient, a local lawyer (assuming this is an offshore bank), in whatever jurisdiction may be used to assemble and present the paperwork required to a local bank.

A further clue is that it is easier just to open two or three bank accounts at the same time in different jurisdictions when all paperwork is assembled and current. It's only a personal preference - but no reason to trust any one bank.

Depending on your particular scenario, possible regions for banking are Belize, the Caribbean islands, Gibraltar, Cyprus, Hong Kong etc. Always bear in mind that banks in Panama are "Panamanian banks" and governed by the laws of that jurisdiction. For example, HSBC in Panama is not the same HSBC based in London - it's a separate corp and not necessarily having the same standards of service.

BTW.. Beware of lawyers in Panama who will sell you 50 corps and then disappear without opening a single bank account

Originally Posted by MarkG

Depending on your particular scenario, possible regions for banking are Belize, the Caribbean islands, Gibraltar, Cyprus, Hong Kong etc. Always bear in mind that banks in Panama are "Panamanian banks" and governed by the laws of that jurisdiction. For example, HSBC in Panama is not the same HSBC based in London - it's a separate corp and not necessarily having the same standards of service.

Don't select a bank because it has a nice website, allows internet registration for new accounts, and offers a wide range of banking services. It may be undercapitalized and in a jurisdiction that has no insurance for deposits. See thread on Banco Trasatlantico for more on what can happen. In fact, maintain multiple accounts in multiple countries at all times.

Originally Posted by BalaBeacher

Don't select a bank because it has a nice website, allows internet registration for new accounts, and offers a wide range of banking services. It may be undercapitalized and in a jurisdiction that has no insurance for deposits. See thread on Banco Trasatlantico for more on what can happen. In fact, maintain multiple accounts in multiple countries at all times.

Total agree on "Internet banking" BalaBeacher. If any bank did Internet registration of new accounts on the basis of a website form submission - it's time to close the browser window and stop feeding data to a phishing website Can't think of any legitimate bank that would open accounts on that basis.... they would be failing on KYC (know your customer policy), but, there are probably a few somewhere ready to grab client funds. Forgetting the bank knowing the customer - as you said, it's wise to KYB (know your bank) as well.

On Caribbean banks, there are usually regulators on the islands and they do normally publish potential rogue bank names. For example, there have been instances of a banking license being granted and a bank promoted to the public (usually in other jurisdictions), but the rules are not being followed and the regulatory agency has no "bodies" locally to account for the "banks" activity or enable an audit. The most a regulator can do is rescind the banking license - this can be done in a day, but may not stop the "bankers" portraying themselves as a bank in other jurisdictions and taking funds from clients (usually before they try to disappear). As a clue, it's better to select banks in that region which have been in business for at least a few decades. "Personalities" involved in banks are irrelevant - e.g. Allen Stanford who had a banking license in the Caribbean and also in Panama to facilitate his ego trip of claiming to be a "Sir" while operating his ponzi scheme.

Another possible scenario stems from the failure of a bank to ID source of funds. If they overlook that or trust the sending bank, it can result in regulators closing the bank within the week. A classic example was a large fraud by an ex-premier of the Ukraine who escaped with almost a billion dollars. He transfered this to the Bank of New York where it was spread globally into other banks (DUH??). A few of the beneficiary banks assumed that the Bank of New York had checked the source of funds and they were "clean". Not so, one particular bank in the Caribbean had a local regulator watching the movement of funds and he closed the bank down within three days because of a failure to verify source of funds.

Also agree on having a selection of accounts in varying jurisdictions. A fair number of banks also offer accounts with multiple sub-currency options - useful for moving to other currencies quickly if and when it hits the fan!

Originally Posted by MarkG

On Caribbean banks, there are usually regulators on the islands and they do normally publish potential rogue bank names. For example, there have been instances of a banking license being granted and a bank promoted to the public (usually in other jurisdictions), but the rules are not being followed and the regulatory agency has no "bodies" locally to account for the "banks" activity or enable an audit. The most a regulator can do is rescind the banking license - this can be done in a day, but may not stop the "bankers" portraying themselves as a bank in other jurisdictions and taking funds from clients (usually before they try to disappear). As a clue, it's better to select banks in that region which have been in business for at least a few decades. "Personalities" involved in banks are irrelevant - e.g. Allen Stanford who had a banking license in the Caribbean and also in Panama to facilitate his ego trip of claiming to be a "Sir" while operating his ponzi scheme.

It's tough for someone to know. Banco Trasatlantico, Ltd. had an actual physical location and seemed to be a "normal" bank with deposits and loans. Behind the scenes it had substantial financial ties to Russians and/or Lithuanians of "questionable" character and a history of failed institutions. With the bulk of its cash in a failed Lithuanian bank, few marketable securities, and most of its loans to affiliated entities, it was in no position to recover from what should have been a mild setback. The only clue depositors had: interest rates on deposits were far higher than what other banks offered. Maybe that's the first red flag.

I am an intermediary for many people who bank here in Panama from North America. I learned the hard way by doing everything wrong first, so I could eventually find the right way. After a few years, you begin to understand, and yes, now I get it. You do not have to be here in Panama in person to open an account. E-mail me at panamajames@gmail.com if you like. Listen to Overseas Radio starting January 2nd for lots of information. Here is the URL to click on to get an account for this new Expat Radio that starts at 8am on January 2nd. http://bit.ly/sGjcrp I will be on the air January 5th, Thursday at 11am.......Panama Jim

Gday P.J.

I live in Australia, but plan to move to Panama in the future. Please till me more about opening an account without being there in person.

Tas Devil

Originally Posted by resalg

I live in Australia, but plan to move to Panama in the future. Please till me more about opening an account without being there in person.

I suggest to stay away from the persons that claim to be able to open an account for you and the banks that would open an acccount without you being present. Having help is fine, but figure on a trip here (or two in my experience). The rule here, the more inconvenient it is to travel to Panama, the more times you'll need to do so.

Here's a possible option...HSBC Jersey (Channel Islands) and not HSBC Panama:

Expat banking and wealth management from HSBC Expat: HSBC Expat