Thread: {alert} panama bank secrecy may be over

BANK SECRECY LAWS COULD BE GONE IN PANAMA AS PANAMA MAY SOON SIGN TAX INFOMATION SHARING TREATIES

This is huge news....

Looks like Panama may exchange information with the USA and other countries for tax reasons and share information on who has bank accounts in Panama at will, so that Panama can get a free trade agreement with the USA.

This will cause Panama real estate and banks to collapse as people who were using panama as a haven leave, sell their real estate and pull there money out of banks, causing the banks to fail in Panama as they now have huge loans to over priced condo's with no capital...

Looks like the police state in the west will be everywhere, there will be no more freedom left or bank secrecy.....

Why We Do Not Use Panama as a Offshore Center (June 2009)

Important Banking News Alert – Bank Reference Letters


Panama’s Stanford Bank Taken Over by Regulator, La Prensa Says - Bloomberg.com


"Panama has no chance of going this alone. They must give in or face the black list and wires in and out of Panama can be cut off bankrupting the country.

They recently suffered from a real estate crash. Construction jobs were lost. A change in their banking laws will lead to massive unemployment.

The Panama Canal only provides 9000 jobs. The banking industry is much larger. When the tax laws change then there will be capital flight from the banks. The conclusions of this you can speculate on yourself."

"Stanford Bank Panama – This year Panama had its first bank failure, Stanford Bank. The depositor’s funds have been tied up for six months now. The bank is in a voluntary liquidation.



Having seen many bank liquidations this one is most unusual. For six months now no creditors committees or efforts towards a distribution of assets. They are trying to sell the bank to another bank. Under the international tax information environment this could prove to be most difficult although they do say they have a buyer.



Their deal with the first buyer fell through. This appears to be a bank failure that they are trying to treat as a non-bank failure. The clients of the bank are at wits end. There is hope of another buyer closing on the bank. We’ll see.


There should really be a creditors committee formed consisting of the largest depositors and they should be deciding whether or not to sell the bank and for how much and to whom. Instead the government is doing it and nothing is happening. It was hoped that the new administration coming in on July 1, 2009 would bail out the situation. I doubt this now.



If a Tax Information Exchange Agreement were signed I would expect this to be the first of many bank problems for Panama as the capital flees their banks. I also am not expecting them to use whatever little money they have to bail out a bank in a dying banking system."


Folks, one of the main reasons people put there money in Panama banks and Real estate was for secrecy and in real estate was to hide money... If this is gone, this would change everything for Panama...

If this is all true and comes to past....

Look at below...... I would say a crash is coming to Panama.....

Comments Please????

I'm not so sure about Panama "having to go it alone." You may be right. On the other hand I believe they are not on the OECD's black list. Panama is in a very envious position for a small backwater country in that it controls the one of the most important commercial corridors of the world so they can't be pushed over easily. Also, it is my understanding that China is investing heavily via Hutchinson Wampoa (Li Ka-shing) in the canal to control their business interests and turn some of their $1 trilllion US treasuries into something of real value. I'd think China would be a welcomed big brother since they seem to be more of a free enterprise country then the US these days.

Here is more info....

Looks like people with Panama foundations and corporations could be screwed and basically handed to the usa government if this all passes...


Offshore Asset Protection BLOG - Bob Bauman: Rumors Fly in Washington and Panama


Tax Evasion in Panama Becomes Roadblock to Trade Pact With U.S. - Bloomberg.com


Eyes on Trade: Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act Authors Speak Out Against Panama FTA


http://www.citizen.org/documents/Pan...2009-FINAL.pdf


Opinion | Panama wrong choice for Obama's first trade deal | Seattle Times Newspaper

There's no 2 ways about it: this would be a BIG BLOW to the country's economy. Lets not panic yet -- it might not go through.

Matt

I have a feeling this will hurt the country more than help with a "free trade" agreement with the US. Currently the US is in deep trouble financially as it is and imports are down and will keep dropping as the economic crisis worsens. I think many countries still look to the US as the big "financial gain" and good to be partners with because of economy. Giving up the banking secrecy, I personally feel, will truly screw Panama into the ground and turn it back into the Banana Republic it used to be.

Well, I stand corrected. Bob Bauman is a solid source of information and if he's writing about it then it stand to stay tune. It would make sense to me for Panama to allign itself more closely with China which seems only conserned with commerce.

Numbered Accounts & Bearer Shares

Representing the Obama administration, Everett Eissenstat, assistant U.S. trade representative for Western Hemisphere affairs, emphasized repeatedly that his office had been working closely with representatives of both Torrijos and Martinelli, and had made "great progress" on tax and labor issues.


Eissenstat (left)claimed that Torrijos's government had made "important commitments, " saying they had accepted the "principles of transparency and exchange of tax information," will soon take steps to "deal with numbered accounts" and has appointed a commission to recommend how the Panama government can "immobilize bearer shares."


Apparently Eissenstat is ignorant of the fact that Panama has no "numbered accounts" and that Panama's anti-money laundering laws already require full "know your customer" identification of all bank account holders in Panama. My Panama sources tell me that most locals think that "bearer shares," (in which a change in corporate ownership can be achieved by transferring shares without revealing the identify of owners), probably have outlived their day.


Offshore Asset Protection BLOG - Bob Bauman: Rumors Fly in Washington and Panama---------------------------------------------------------------



The reason that no countries appear on the OCED list, is because amazingly they have all agreed to share information after the duress that was put on them...

Even the Swiss are caving in....

Read this....


Switzerland: Bent but Not Broken


This article looks gives us some hope but is already a few months old, and lots has changed already since then...

What Will Panama Do Now?

What Will Panama Do Now?

---------------------------------------------------------------

I can't actually see how panama would benefit at all from a free trade agreement anyways, as the usa would be the one that benefited since all goods that go to USA from Panama already enter duty free, it is that Panama that puts duty on American goods entering Panama..

So why does Panama not just remove the tariffs of American goods entering Panama, then it would be like a free trade agreement without having to give up there bank secrecy...

Just a thought...


But imagine the real estate that will be sold by all the guys that were laudering money now....

And the bank accounts closed and the jobs lost in the banking and construction industry...

It is amazing how the world is changing so fast, and how banking secrecy and the offshore world could be destroyed in the next few months, amazing times as we move close and closer to a world police state...

I really don't see why Panama would have to bend to pressure from the US? Panama has benefited to much from money laundering to just give in. People come to Panama for "business" to be out of sight of their respective home country. Take away that and all of a sudden there is not much reason to be here. Let's face it, a person can buy a luxury condo anywhere in the carib or the southern US for less money. People don't come to Panama for tourism, generally speaking. Not only that Panama does have a VERY important asset that everybody is interested in known as "The Panama Canal".

I would say it is all but over for offshore bank accounts and also bank secrecy in any country.... Panama has to comply or be isolated with no way to send or receive bank transfers...

Hundreds of years of bank secrecy around the world will be over in as little as 3 months time...

Incredible, this is the topic of the decade for Panama, just that nobody realizes it yet...

Panama is gonna be affected big time, both in the banking as well as real estate, if you thought there was gonna be a real estate crash before, just wait now...

It is an end of an era for offshore banking and the beginning of a world police state...

all countries including Panama will be signing tax information sharing agreements shortly or already have.

Many people will be turned over to the tax authorites all over the world, and having a foundation or bearer share corporation in Panama will no longer help...

Imagine when this happens, the end result will be devastating.

Incredible times we are living in, so much is changing at such a fast pace....

I just talked to my Lawyer in Panama and it is all true, it is very likely to go through, since Panama has no choice now...

My God, what a turn of events....

It is not about a free trade agreement at all, it is about USA continued global domination, and making sure it's residents pay taxes any were they are in the world...

So even if Panama did not sign the free trade agreement, they would still have to bow before the OCED...... Like the all the other tax havens countries are currently doing right now.....

They used this global depression and blamed it all on the tax havens, the USA is good at doing that....

Obama said he was gonna go after the tax havens, I guess he was not joking....

Read the latest here, in the top header....

Offshore Banking, Private Banking, Offshore Corporation, Second Passport and Asset Protection - Panama Legal Law Firm


Take care all.

Unfortunate to see Panama and these other countries loose their sovereignty like this.

Originally Posted by MRWOOHOO

Unfortunate to see Panama and these other countries loose their sovereignty like this.

Yes it is, looks like imperialist USA gets it's way in the end again based on more lies...

Here is what to do, to try and save yourself if you already have bank accounts open in offshore havens...

Asset Forfeiture & the New Tax Treaties


Bank Account Closure before Treaty Enactment Date


– If the bank you are using has your name and identity documents you will shortly be at risk. How soon? A sure bet by the end of 2009 most likely sooner. These treaties are being signed every week now. Will the treaties be retroactive? As a rule no.

Most if not all countries have constitutions that specifically prohibit any sort of a retroactive law. We cannot speak for every offshore haven but we seriously doubt we will see any retroactive laws or treaties going back in time before the enactment date of the treaty. Even the USA tries to avoid retroactive laws.

Now let us explain this in depth. If the treaty in the particular country goes into effect say on August 15, 2009 and you still have an account open at the bank then (August 15, 2009), the account history of that bank account going back to day one will get produced if there is a request for it. The USA gave the Swiss bank UBS a request for 52,000 names recently. Just one bank, mind you and just the first round of requests.

If we project this out I would expect that the requests from the Swiss alone will eventually reach over 200,000 requests just from the USA. When you add in the other 81 nations in OECD the figure will be somewhat higher. These bank records will lead to requests for more bank records in their search for other accounts these people have sent money to.

Now if you closed the bank account where you are the signatory before the treaty goes into effect, then you should escape having your bank records produced in an information request under the new Tax Information Exchange Agreements.

The Treaty will not be used to go after old closed bank accounts that were not in existence at the time of the enactment date of the new treaty calling for the free exchange of banking information.

It is a free exchange, just requiring the requests to be individual. Remember the 52,000 requests. There is no reasonable or probably cause requirement. Whatever the requesting country wants to call probable cause will be enough. Do not expect to see banks fighting these requests for information.

It is not up to the banks, it is up to their governments and these very same governments signed these treaties.


What to Do

– You always have options. You can do nothing if you have an offshore account and hope for the best. You can declare anything you should have declared previously and hope for the best. You can close your accounts in any offshore haven before the treaties are signed in that country that could affect you.

You can rearrange your affairs using trust agreement banking so as to keep your banking records private and removed from tax treaty information requests. The key is of course to have a law firm in a jurisdiction sign on the bank accounts from a country that does not tax offshore income. This removes any chance of the account coming up in a tax information request as a result of the treaty. This will help you keep your privacy and security.

When information gets requested by governments frequently falls into the public domain. This could expose you to kidnapping, blackmail, extortion, home invasion, robbery etc. It seems under the treaty any government in a treaty with the country where the bank in question is located, could request bank records by saying the account came up somehow in an investigation.

Maybe it sent or received a wire from an account tied to someone from his or her own country. Thus a government foreign to you could get all your banking records under this new treaty. They could do whatever they want with these records like enter them into the public domain, publish them, put them into public court records, public tax records, whatever.

There are a lot of corrupt governments in the world. Some governments are dictatorships, some practice discrimination based on religion, sex and race, some are extremely corrupt and criminals have corrupted some governments.

Privacy is a major component of freedom.


Take care all...

I just came upon a good opinion article from Eric Jackson. It seems as though he does not feel that Panama plans to pull down it's pants for "Free-Trade": http://www.thepanamanews.com/.

Also if you go to http://Panama-Guide.com Don Winner does not seem to feel it will happen either.

I did some Internet searching on the topic and everything and everybody still seems somewhat vague.

it's easy for the US to bully other country and meddle in their business when they aren't a nuclear threat.

If North Korea had the same financial structure as Panama, the US would never interfere.

Anyways, i dont think it,s anytime soon that Panama will bent in front of any country regarding their "financial privacy".

They have to much to lose!

A Happy Canadian Citizen !!

I think your right, either Panama will just not agree to it or they will agree to get the free trade agreement and then just never follow-through on their end of the bargain. They will give the US the three big lies, "don't worry we love you", "the checks in the mail", and I keep forgetting what the third lie is?

Some of the latest news...

Earlier this year, Swiss banking giant UBS (UBS 11.31, -0.22, -1.91%) (CH:UBSN 12.57, -0.44, -3.38%) agreed to pay fines of $780 million and hand over account details on some 300 clients to settle tax fraud charges.

To make matters even worse, the USA are bringing law suits against the banks that have bank secrecy.

They now think the largest bank in Switzerland [UBS] will have to some very dear settlements soon.

"Published reports have suggested that UBS could pay as much as $4.6 billion to settle the current case"

If they win, in which they are expected to, it will set a legal precedent, for so many more law suits to follow.

And this is just the first on many law suits for this bank for bank secrecy and tax evasion of USA residents by the USA government, I am sure the USA will file more law suits against this bank if they do not turn over the names they want. Than there is Germany, France and England and many others that want to sue this same bank as well.

How many Panama banks could afford to pay for all these law suits, than the legal costs on top?

Now even the Swiss are signing new tax treaties as are all the other tax haven countries....

Now to make matters even worse, Even the shares of UBS are falling as well from all this bad news...

Obama is making this one of his top priorities, and that is to end tax havens, perhaps to get new money to pay for his many new social programs....

Welcome to the new world Order....


MarketWatch.com Story

MarketWatch.com Story

MarketWatch.com Story

Got news from one of the biggest law offices in Panama City that they are WORRIED BIG TIME for the first time ever with Martinelli in charge because he might really want to get the free trade agreement signed. It looks like there's a strong chance Panama will cave in.

Let's all pray it goes the other way...
Matt

Matt

You are right about the Lawyers worrying, as they have the most to lose as they were the biggest promoters of all this....

I even heard that some of the biggest law firms with branches in Panama, are actually making plans of closing their Panama offices, they are so sure of all of this happening, as they were mostly in opening of bank accounts & foundations for people etc....

Some of the law firms are speculating that if all this goes as they think, their could possible be a massive banking and real estate crash that will devastate the economy.

Lets hope not, but it is not looking to good right now...

I'm close friends with the risk manager at a particular bank (who will remain nameless)...

And we have dinner quite often. Last time we went out two weeks ago, he revealed that the good old boys at the IRS demanded all the names of all the American SIGNATORIES on the accounts. They know whoever signs the accounts, is the real owner (not the fake directors).

And the bank DID give them the info because every international transaction goes through the US -- and they could basically crush the bank's international business HARD AND FAST.

And these guys don't even have any US branches.

We can only imagine what the big banks with the US branches are willing to do (as seen by UBS, who did give up a lot of people and did pay a huge fine... now they are being stopped by Swiss gov. from revealing EVERYONE).

Point is... The New World Order is here... If your name is on a bank account with a US passport on file -- it's probably wise to assume the worst.

Sad but true.

Just copied this from La Prensa's english section...

Looks like it's officially over:

ECONOMY

FINANCE

Panama yields to pressure concerning its lax banking laws
Panama said it would make certain adjustments to its banking system recommended by the Organization for the Cooperation and the Economic Development (OECD) and the G-20 Summit leaders, which have often criticized the country for being a fiscal paradise.

Though in a formal statement the country said it acknowledged that "times have changed" and that it will no longer be able to remain "isolated within the world," Vice Minister of Economy Frank de Lima said that the new administration intends to demonstrate that Panama is not a fiscal paradise and will demand recognition of the domestic tax system.
“We will ask for the Member States of the OECD that respect that concept, but that we are conscious that we must make changes in one way or another," explained the vice minister. One change, he said, would be to follow the route Switzerland has taken through the negotiation of treaties for a more transparen exchange of tax information.

De Lima contended that Panama can no longer risk being blacklisted or subjected to sanctions, as France and the United Kingdom have threatened.
Banks in the country have also consented to change their way of business.
Federico Humbert, president of Banco General, said it is important that the banking community understand the economic impact of the OECD pressure and explained that it “would be irresponsible” not to take appropriate actions.

“We at Banco General have already adopted stricter measures to be able to eliminate the obsolete principle of the anonymous client that is protected in joint-stock companies," said Humbert. "We will be adapting other policies to better identify the client."

Nobody knows...

Panama Investor Blog: Which Way Panama & the OECD

Thank for keeping this post up to date Matt....

One thought is this, if the USA, England, Germany etc want to put sanctions against Panama for it's freedoms and bank secrecy,and perhaps restrict the use of bank wires going into and out of Panama, in which the USA controls, but is supposed to be open for all...

Then Perhaps Panama should then say they would not allow countries that do this to them, to not be able to use the Panama canals, for those countries that are police states and recking the freedom of everyone.

This would apply to ships flagged in those countries as well as ships going to or from those countries.

That would settle things fast...

Time the west mind it's own dam business.

Also why even bother signing a free trade agreement with the USA, what do they make anyways? Better to sign a free trade agreement with China, now that would be smart thinking, than Panama could be a hub for Chinese goods tax and duty free for the entire America's.

Everything is made in China anyways, plus the Chinese never put restrictions or impose their wills on countries they want to trade with unlike the USA....

so who is really free these days?

Perhaps signing a defense agreement with the Chinese might not hurt either, as crazy as that would have sounded a decade back...

Just my thoughts...

It costs a lot of money to sail around South America, that's for sure.

More bad news guys, seems that even International Living and also Bob Bauman are worried over this signing of tax treaties and sharing of information of all countries coming into affect shortly....

Is the IRS Behind the Counter at Your Bank?

I think Bel-Air had a good idea on use of the canal. Since Panama stands to lose big income if blacklisted, simply add the amount lost to transiting ships of those countries.

The Canal is the one "little thing" that this country has that swings A LOT of weight. If it wasn't for that Panama would have already given in. Hard to believe such a small Latin country is so tremendously influential.

Panama Announces That it Will Concede to OECD Pressure



Sorry to tell you all but it is officially over...

No-Non-Sense-Matt had everything correct a few posts back...

Panama has now agreed in writing to end bank secrecy and enter into tax treaties and information sharing agreements with all the other 82 OECD nations.

I got off the phone with my Panama lawyer today, and I started to move my money out of Panama, and left only $1,000 in each account...

From what my lawyer told me it is officially over.... Panama will be entering tax treaties in the next while, I have so much to tell, I could not type it all....

But to sum it all up, both the government of Panama as well as the banks in Panama have all agreed to end anonymous banking, and to share banking and tax information with the other countries of the OECD...

If one were to look back from the future for the story of decade for Panama, this one could be it...

It is really sad and shocking to hear all this, many banks in Panama have already started to end the anonymous bank accounts.

Read more here....

Panama Announces That it Will Concede to OECD Pressure

http://www.panamalaw.org/index.html

http://www.panamalaw.org/images/panama_oecd1.jpg

Prensa.com Panamá - English edition


I have so many more links to share, but I don't want to clog up this post to much, but we have to now face the reality, and that reality is not good.

Now that we know this is coming how will it effect Panama? Good or bad? How will it affect the banking, stock brokerage and also real estate sectors of Panama's economy, and the overall economy? I have my thoughts but would like to hear yours first.

Sorry to tell you all this guys, but it is what it is...

Take care all.

Originally Posted by BEL-AIR

Why We Do Not Use Panama as a Offshore Center (June 2009)

Important Banking News Alert – Bank Reference Letters


Panama’s Stanford Bank Taken Over by Regulator, La Prensa Says - Bloomberg.com

Comments Please????

Looks like Mr. Panamalaw had some first hand inside info since they moved to Guatamala
Guatemala Bank Account & Guatemala Corporation 24 Hours from Now!
good idea, just another hole that will eventually be squashed.

Looks like your money is not your money.

Originally Posted by BEL-AIR

Sorry to tell you all this guys, but it is what it is...

Take care all.

Given these dire circumstances, what's the best-case/worst-case scenario for this country, as you foresee it?

That's a good question...

Here's my opinion:

Best Case Scenario: The banks do NOT just "hand over" all information from ALL Americans (and other of course the other 82 countries from the OECD) if the US fishes and asks for "the complete lists".

This is what the Swiss are fighting the US for right now (52,000 names to be exact). Now the Swiss value banking privacy 100X more than Panamanians because they are wise enough to know that it would cause a massive exodus of funds from their country (many believe they control a third of the world's wealth).

In the Swiss case (which is vital in the world scheme of things including Panama), the government is going to basically go and take ALL of UBS's data before they hand it over (52,000 names). Would Panama do that? I don't think so.

They almost most certainly will give them information if they ask for a SPECIFIC person that they are investigating.

That's the BEST case scenario.

WORST CASE: Banks simply hand over ALL the names of citizens to ANY country that asks for it.

All Panamanian banks STOP accepting US clients (this is already happening in many parts of the world including London and Switzerland because it's way too much red tape and paperwork to keep up with Obama's requests). I know a couple of banks in Panama do NOT accept anymore US clients already. I think this trend will continue.

HERE'S THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE:

Massive amounts of money are pulled out of the country. International businessmen STOP coming here, they stop investing here, they stop banking here... I don't know what % of Panama's economy is built on the offshore industry -- BUT IT'S MASSIVE.

Guys come here -- set up their affairs... They party here... They rent apartments, they rent hotels... they pay Columbians... They go to restaurants...

In many respects, it's the GOLDEN GOOSE.

By killing the Golden Goose, why would anyone come here to bank? They are better off either staying home or going to an obscure country or banking in any other country.

Same thing with the corporations. Their value as far as privacy and secrecy goes, is most likely going to become totally obsolete.

The ONLY thing that Panama has going for it, for the next 3 to 7 years is the Canal expansion. That's going to bring in A LOT of families. If it wasn't for that -- the country would be in dyer straights.

After the expansion is done -- most guys in the real estate game expect the prices and the value of apartments and houses (buying AND RENTAL) to crash.

The bottom line is, I think Panama is making a massive mistake. It's the same kind of mistake that Vegas made years ago when they tried to "clean up" and become Disneyland. When business dropped like a rock in the ocean, they realized their mistake and went back to "What Happens In Vegas, Stays in Vegas".

Panama made a similar mistake 2 years ago, when they changed the Canadian and American visas to 30 days. This HURT the country. Fortunately, they wised up and changed it back.

However -- once they sign a deal with those countries... They can't "unsign" it. The damage will be done and most likely irreparable.

The only thing Panama will have is it's "tourism", which still in it's infancy stage and is a joke in the grand scheme of things. And because of some of the laws and monopolies in that market (maybe I'll comment on this another day)-- is unlikely to change.

Of course -- I could be all wrong and that would be cool...

What keeps me here is my girlfriend and the warm weather.

I wish you all good luck with your affairs -- be wise, play it safe and stay on top of it.

Matt

http://www.panama-guide.com/article....90719104705657