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About LinkBacksWhile I don't really have enough of money to worry about it , I have lived in Panama for 11 years and don't feel the US has any right to invade my privacy since I don't live there anymore.
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While I don't really have enough of money to worry about it , I have lived in Panama for 11 years and don't feel the US has any right to invade my privacy since I don't live there anymore.
Uncle Sam might disagree with that however, unless you've given up your citizenship.
So simply stated. So profound.Originally Posted by robertb
Hi all:
Just a quick FYI on Uncle Sam's penchant for sticking his nose in every facet of your life: Asset Protection and Offshore Living
Found the comments after the articles to be very interesting.
Re: {alert} panama bank secrecy may be overBEL-AIR - looks like you got screwed!
"Once the Agreement enters into force, it will have effect for applications to be made on or after the date of enactment, with respect to matters pertaining to fiscal years beginning on or after three years prior to signing this Agreement."
I hope you didn't pay your monkey attorney too much!!!
For your question Ed, my lawyer told me that if you close your bank account and take all your money out before they sign the treaties you secrets will be safe and grand fathered... If you don't they can go back as many years as they want, that is why I closed all my accounts...
Actually I not a usa citizen so this not apply to me anyways, I am Canadian, and perhaps 6 to 10 years from now Canada like all broke western socites will do the same, and my money and history of that money will be long gone....
Canada only keeps bank records 7 years, and Panama banks 4 years, you can't even go back farther even if you tried, I was audited by revenue Canada and my banks in Canada could not even get records farther back then that since they do not keep them...
So CRA was shit out of luck...
So I will be long gone by then, plus all my accounts were in corporate names....
Plus As a Canadian we are not taxed on our world wide income anyways once we leave and are no longer residents of Canada, this year I am a resident of the Philippines, and they do not tax off shore income of foreigners anyways, when I had my accounts in Panama I was no longer a resident of Canada or Usa, so no fear there.....
So as you can see the smart money is always years ahead of everyone else.
The rich get richer and the poor get jail...
And so it goes....
Panama banks are qualified intermediaries for several years already, which means they have been feeding data into the IRS when needed http://www.panamaforum.com/panama-bl...hlight=secrecy
My Panama Lawyer: Why do I have to give Panama banks so much information?
Hey FromPanama1! Enough already. You've posted your advertisement in a dozen threads in one evening. If you don't have anything relevant to add, please don't post your link.
No problem. This is a complex problem and I really do not feel I should have to repeat a long answer here... Pay a U.S. lawyer some real money or face the IRS yourself.
Hi all,
Does anyone know if all this talk only applies to the "Day-Walkers" with American passports. Or is this something the rest of us with citizenship from OECD countries should be concerned about, ie: countries with signed treaties with the US. Would hate to be 'back doored'.
I have had a quick search on the OECD site, and although it does mention Panama's commitment to making changes. It does not say exactly when these changes will come in effect. It just says when it will "try to" make these changes from.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/60/16/2082513.pdf
Am I reading too much into it, or not enough?
Simon Black is an International traveler/writer regarding finance abroad. He too is concerned about this situation and about the ability to legally keep assets safe and secure in Panama in the near future.
I'd be curious as to any new developments in this story.
Dear god do I dislike what has become of my country. Its like watching a sibling hooked on drugs and caught in a downward spiral.
Meanwhile, aboard the Titanic... "Captain, there's a huge iceberg ahead!"
"Very well, I shall have the chicken."
"No, no sir... we're about to crash! You've got to change course!!!"
"Really? Oh in that case, I shall have the beef then..."
I kinda went through the whole topic, and still did not get an understanding... Did this pass? I mean so do now Panama discloses bank account owner to the US?
There are a couple of things going on and a lot of confusion. I am going to give what I THINK has happened and where we are and others can jump in and correct me.
First, Panama to my knowledge does not presently share customer information with the US as matter of routine nor does it report to the IRS on US citizen account activity. But, under pressure from the OECD and the G20 on the issue of tax transparency, Panama was forced to take steps to be removed from the OECD's 'grey list' of territories which have committed to, but not yet substantially implemented, the internationally agreed standard in tax transparency and information exchange. Panama has concluded a number of these treaty agreements with several countries dealing with avoidance of double taxation and tax information exchange provisions in line with the OECD standard. It also has adopted KYC ("know your customer") requirements bank must undertake to open accounts to meet OECD standards. This is why folks opening bank accounts in Panama have had to furnish much more information (including proof of citizenship, copy of passport, statement of source of funds, etc.).
Secondly, to my knowledge, Panama has NOT signed such an agreement with the US. It's not that Panama is refusing to do so, but that the US wants more than this standard treaty provides. For example, and I am speculating here a bit, standard treaty language may call for the countries to exchange bank information of specific persons when actual fraud is suspected, but not a blanket exchange of all information on a regular and recurring basis. In short, Panama and other countries are saying that (i) if you (the US, for example) tell us you suspect Bill Smith of tax fraud, we'll allow / require our banks to provide information to you on this individual, but (ii) we will not routinely and regularly (such as annually) report to you every account we have set up with every US citizen. But, a bank in Panama could agree to voluntarily cooperate with an inquiry from the US at any time. I do not believe Panama law would PROHIBIT it from doing so.
Thridly, this is also related to why Panama does not have a FTA (free trade agreement) with the US despite approval by Panama--Congress in the US has refused to approve. Instead, it believes holding up ratification of the FTA will force Panama into agreeing to share banking information with the US by "punishing" Panama. In fact, in my opinion, the refusal of the US to ratify the FTA has probably harmed the US more than Panama by limiting opportunities for, say Catepillar, and other US based companies.
Finally, unrelated to the tax/information exchange treaty, is the US passage of the HIRE Act in 2010 which, in part, is directed to foreign banks being "qualified intermediaries." If a foreign bank agrees, it will be subject to IRS rules and regulations and will be required to report annually on all US accounts, among other things. If the foreign bank declines to agree, then any US bank that transfers funds to a non-qualified intermediary must withhold and remit to the IRS 30% of the wired amount as prepaid taxes. EdBowers posted an excellent summary of this legislation on another thread.
So, I think the most significant development in the coming months / year is whether Panama banks agree to become "qualified intermediaries" under US law and obligate themselves to abide by the reporting provisions in the act. To my knowledge, this has not been publicly announced by the banks, but it would be a bank-by-bank decision.
I've been thinking about the HIRE Act and there have already been a few ideas I've had about getting around it all... none of which are easy, cheap or even remotely convenient.
Sad to see such a once-great nation devolving into a police state with global reach.
Seems to be happening already...
HSBC Panama and the IRS
Scary stuff....
That is secret-its already disappeared.
Either way, there's always very interesting information on his website...goldbullionpanama.com
It seems to me to be unjust to tax Americans living abroad. Some of us haven't even been in the US for years. I came to Panama because of the low cost of living and the fact that it was tropical. The USA throws billions of dollars down the drain with various foreign military adventures and then worries abut the finances of Americans living abroad. It doesn't make sense. I file a tax return every year and use Tax Services in Panama City although I don't owe any taxes because I have a wife and child as dependents. Nevertheless it is a bother to have to file a return and costs me a trip to Panama City. If you are married to a Panamanian you could put some assets in the name of your wife since she wouldn't be required to pay US taxes. There might be a few wealthy Americans living in Panama but most of the ones I know are living on a fixed low income. So looking at everybody's account is not going to yield much benefit to the US. If you prefer a bank that is only located in Panama then Banco General is a good bank. They don't like to open accounts using an American passport but if you have a cedula you will have no problem. The biggest financial problem in Panama right now is inflation which really hurts if you are a retiree living on a fixed income.
I agree that the U.S. wastes money on crap every day in the billions of dollars and certainly far afield from the limited role our founding fathers envisioned of the federal government. (Another story)
But, I'm not feeling too sorry for your having to file a "no tax due" return. So, I'm not sure you are being taxed.
Many of my friends on fixed income in Panama are complaining about the inflation also. It is an annoyance for retirees but a real problem for the poor in panama. All the new loose money that is flooding the Panama economy from all the international loans and infrastructure projects are having an undesireable effect. Add the weakening U.S. dollar to the mix and I see inflation for many years to come. Wages never rise as fast as inflation and for fixed income folks there is no reprieve, you can expect a slowly deteriorating standard of living.
You can file your own taxes online for free, go to taxact.com. Its simple and user friendly-If you can post on this forum, you can also do your taxes without leaving home in under 30 minutes.
The thing is that we all pay a tax called inflation even the Panamanians because they use the US dollar. The Fed constantly prints IOU's which they never pay back which results in your money being worth a little less day by day. I am 70 years old and I've seen this happening ever since I was a kid. When I was in high school I bought a used 49 Plymouth for $75 and put 21 cents a gallon gas in it. Under the Obama administration they've been spending more than normal so I suspect that inflation will really heat up over the next few years. You can have your money in some secret bank account somewhere but the Fed is taxing it by devaluing it. You are right that inflation is a serious problem for retirees. I was much better off when I came here 12 years ago. From a financial standpoint I shouldn't have started a new family at my age. Another problem is that due to the fed's policy of low interest rates you can't get any return with a CD. I had a CD expire last year with HSBC that was paying me 6% and now a CD pays very little so my income is going to drop. When I first came to Panama you could get 8% interest on a CD from Banco Nacional and even more from some other banks. It seems those days are gone. Low interest rates and high inflation is a terrible combination for a retiree.
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