Thread: Thinking about relocating

Imagine that the great state of Vermont forgets to issue license plates for an entire year requiring every resident to pick up temporary permits every 90 days (they did here in Panama). Unless you can make substantial amounts of money tax free with offshore corporations it's really a complete waste to be here. The intellectual level here is what you would expect in a crack house in Compton.

It is great to discover Panama - the range foreigners you meet here is just incredible, and I mean incredible. People who were involved in Watergate, people who can tried to create new nations in the Caribbean, deported from Cuba, get hand cuffed at the Embassy when they go there, hiding millions from creditors, a variety of people making literally millions every year tax free from web platforms/sales, refusing to file tax returns since 40 years back. Not to forget the crooked developers and all the crazy foreigners that have given them money for nothing. My foreign neighbors escaped from Venezuela with bags of money, others have lived in 20 different countries. Almost all foreigners have "a dark secret". Most everyone, including myself, has a life story that will just blow you away. I know ONE person in Panama I consider "normal".

The locals I think of as slaves with their masters basically. Roughly like the US south 120 years ago. In Panama you either make 1.67 per hour or 167 per hour - there is no middle class. The "middle class" they refer to here make 800-1500 a month and you couldn't live in a shoe box on that in the city. You have to own a business or have a Harvard MBA working for a non-Panamanian company here to make anything.

So, I think Panama is great in my own bubble. As soon as I go outside the bubble and try to do anything locally I hate it here. Cutting your hair, buying food, putting fuel in car, chatting with the ladies and such work most of the time (like 90-95 % as compared to 99.9 % in the US). When you try to do anything more complex it works 10-20 % of the time as expected and is usually the worst administrative nightmare you could imagine - it feels like they want to torture you and it creates an enormous amount of hate for me, I want to kill all of them.

If someone here can make one dollar and it results in a loss of ten thousand dollars for you, they will not hesitate a second to take the dollar. That culture might come from the 50 % unemployment during Noriega and maybe they only had food for 80 % of the kids in school, thereby creating a short-term survival behavior in most decision making. Long term business relationships have a very low value - what you can make right now does.

Originally Posted by jackblack

Thanks pingun,

We want to know where the warts are in Panama.
The more details we get the better
We look to you and the others in this forum for the secrets of living in Panama.
We want to thank everyone for participating in informing the uninformed (us).

Regards

Jack

If you like roller coasters but frown upon schools, doctors, shopping and food move to Altos del Maria.

Thanks SS,

Your note is a little cryptic.
We need more detailed feedback.
What are the good and bad points.
Where do you live and how long have you been in Panama.?
How did you go about choosing a place to live.

Regards

Jack

http://www.panamaforum.com/living-pa...html#post67537 (Went to El Valle today.)
http://www.panamaforum.com/living-pa...html#post67407 (Altos del Maria trip)
http://www.panamaforum.com/living-pa...html#post67670 (Colon trip)

Thanks very much SS,

We find your road trip stories a great read.
We can put ourselves in the passenger seat for each road trip.
This amount of detail is exactly what will help us with our trip.
Keep us on your list and let us know about any other road trips.

Regards

Jack

Hey Jack,

As far as internet goes in Panama, it really depends on where you are. In my friend's apartment in the city I can get upwards of 6mb/s late at night, and 2-3mb/s during heavy usage hours.

Where I'm staying in Coronado I tend to stick right around 4mb/s, which is fast enough to stream live TV when I want to watch my University back home play basketball. Most of my work is with photography and video online, and I have had no issues with internet speed here.

On the other end, I spent two months in Pedasi, Panama. A few hotels benefit from the fiber optics laid down for the Billabong surf tournament last June, but most people still use either the Claro 4g sticks or they pay for DSL. Both suffer drastically from speed bottlenecks at prime hours. BUT, I know several people who do PR consulting for major U.S. companies over Skype from Pedasi. The internet speed is fine there, even if it does max out around 1.5 mb/s.

I'm in Bocas right now for Christmas, but when I get back I'd happily do some speed tests in the city and in Coronado for you if you're interested.


As far as the warts in Panama go, I think that the long post above is much more negative than Panama really is, even if most of it is accurate. I do think there are a large number of "normal" people here - as in people who don't have crazy, sketchy backstories. I know plenty of them.

On the negative side, Panama really does have a honeymoon period. The first 3-4 months here are wonderful. Then the little (and not so little) things start to get to you, if you let them. The main thing to do is not assume this place is a 1st world country. It's tempting to let yourself think that because of how many advances there are. But the infrastructure, education and several other facets of this society are still 3rd world. Nepotism and an over-bureaucratic government makes for a huge pain in the ass for many foreigners trying to make businesses here. But there are work arounds to everything, and if you are patient and explicit in your instructions and oversight most issues can be avoided.

On the plus side, Panama is getting better every day. I've met a good share of Panamanians who are educated, forward thinking and driven - enough to counter the negative impression that the large majority of Panamanian workers can give. The expat communities are getting stronger, and the infrastructure in several of them is being fast-laned as a result (upcoming hospital and expanded airport in Pedasi come to mind).

Like everyone's said - you really just need to come down and spend several months here. But let me know if you have any other questions.

I have been to the cableonda office 6-7 times to try to get them to work on the "issues", I have been billed incorrectly 3 times and have reset my cable modem about 150 times. They replaced it after a 3 months long battle two weeks ago and now things are good - before they had been here and put an extension on the cable. The key is to be unfriendly and threatening here if you need things done (if they cannot escape). I would say the uptime is 96 % and I always have the speed I am paying for.

Panama is not getting better, just in the past 2 months they have come down with government controls and regulations only worthy of a fascist police state. Leave a store without a receipt and you get fined, no drinks after 2 AM on weekdays and so on.

[QUOTE=pingun;.

Panama is not getting better, just in the past 2 months they have come down with government controls and regulations only worthy of a fascist police state. Leave a store without a receipt and you get fined, no drinks after 2 AM on weekdays and so on.[/QUOTE] the receipt thing was brought on by the people themselves . everyone of them want something for free , no medical bills , no house or income tax , nice roads etc , except someone has to pay for this , they would always strike a deal for cash , , well i hate to inform you but sometimes you have to pay in to get something out . if you do not you have a good old socialist country , which works until you run out of the other guys money . anyone that has lived in any country that is anywhere normal knows the goverment needs money to run , they do not make there own money , they use ours , and as far a the drinking thing , if you need to still drink after 2 am weekdays and 3 am weekends you might just have a small prolbem , but you must also remember AA is for quiters

Thanks wolfeflow,

We have appreciate the useful feedback from you and the other contributors.

Regards

Jack

Thanks pingun,

Great tips

Jack

One interesting place is Amador Islands. These islands are connected with Panama-City with the hand made road. When we were looking for appartment we looked it. It is not private house, it is condo. It has perfect sea view, infrastructure around, 10 minites to Panama-City...
We are urbanists and have no childran and made deccission to live in Panama City, Punta Pacifica.
I think for total information it would be interesting to see it.

Thanks Viliams,

When we get to Panama in June a trip to Punta Pacifica will be on our list.

Regards

Jack

Welcome you and your wife. Nice to meet you.

Thanks nashir,