Thread: New and seeking knowledge/expertise

Hi to all....

Struggling with a decision about where to relocate/retire in about a year, and Panama is high on the list. We've done some research and we're thinking of coming down next month on a scouting mission. Have traveled to Mexico quite a bit and love it, but things have changed there....
Seeking honest opinions, helpful tidbits, insightful thoughts....whatever you can offer. Thanks!!

what are you leaving and why? what are you looking for a why?

I'm leaving what I've come to consider an over-taxed, over-medicated, over-fed, over-regulated country where common courtesy and consideration seem to have disappeared. I'm also in Illinois, and I have a need to be in a place with actual geographical features. I'm not starry-eyed about a move out of the country....I know there will be obstacles and disappointments....and I'm not wedded to the idea of Panama. I'm investigating possibilities and trying to learn what I can. I'm looking for a different quality of life.

Originally Posted by leeazon

I'm leaving what I've come to consider an over-taxed, over-medicated, over-fed, over-regulated country where common courtesy and consideration seem to have disappeared. I'm also in Illinois, and I have a need to be in a place with actual geographical features. I'm not starry-eyed about a move out of the country....I know there will be obstacles and disappointments....and I'm not wedded to the idea of Panama. I'm investigating possibilities and trying to learn what I can. I'm looking for a different quality of life.

well if you are a needy person panama is not the place , if you can do things on your own , then panama is good I think . if you want it to be just like home but cheaper , panama is not the place , if you are looking for about 1950 USA , panama is good . if you live in panama city the quality of life can be close to the USA , housing , shopping , dining out etc , . if you live elsewhere in the country you will find a different quality of life . do research before you come to try to decide the climate ( rainfall ) you want and then come look .

Originally Posted by leeazon

I'm leaving what I've come to consider an over-taxed, over-medicated, over-fed, over-regulated country where common courtesy and consideration seem to have disappeared. I'm also in Illinois, and I have a need to be in a place with actual geographical features. I'm not starry-eyed about a move out of the country....I know there will be obstacles and disappointments....and I'm not wedded to the idea of Panama. I'm investigating possibilities and trying to learn what I can. I'm looking for a different quality of life.

Please be more specific on what you want and then we can tell you if such a thing is available in Panama. What are your must haves? Go ahead and list them out.

Originally Posted by leeazon

Hi to all....

Struggling with a decision about where to relocate/retire in about a year, and Panama is high on the list. We've done some research and we're thinking of coming down next month on a scouting mission. Have traveled to Mexico quite a bit and love it, but things have changed there....
Seeking honest opinions, helpful tidbits, insightful thoughts....whatever you can offer. Thanks!!

What parts of Mexico have you visited and liked? I would not let the media scare you out of Mexico unless you plan to get involved with the drug trade.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

well if you are a needy person panama is not the place , if you can do things on your own , then panama is good I think . if you want it to be just like home but cheaper , panama is not the place , if you are looking for about 1950 USA , panama is good . if you live in panama city the quality of life can be close to the USA , housing , shopping , dining out etc , . if you live elsewhere in the country you will find a different quality of life . do research before you come to try to decide the climate ( rainfall ) you want and then come look .

Thanks NG....I tend to not try to rely on others unless it's really necessary. Could you be a bit more descriptive about quality of life outside PC? Different how? We have no desire to be walled off from the locals. Climate-wise I think we're leaning toward some elevation to avoid too much heat...but when we come we'll look at different areas. Know anything about the Cerro Azul area?

Originally Posted by Jake

Please be more specific on what you want and then we can tell you if such a thing is available in Panama. What are your must haves? Go ahead and list them out.

What we want....hmmm...okay...

Scenery (ie, mountains or bodies of water, etc)
The opportunity to at least try to commingle with locals
Some sense of safety/security
Reasonably close to an airport
Beaches within reasonable driving distance
Availability of decent health care
Opportunity to start a business in the future
Grocery/shops not far

Those aren't in any particular order....and when I look at the list it seems like a lot....Is it?

Originally Posted by leeazon

Thanks NG....I tend to not try to rely on others unless it's really necessary. Could you be a bit more descriptive about quality of life outside PC? Different how? We have no desire to be walled off from the locals. Climate-wise I think we're leaning toward some elevation to avoid too much heat...but when we come we'll look at different areas. Know anything about the Cerro Azul area?

well the quality of life outside the city is about the same as you would find outside any large city in the states , panama city looks like many of the large cities in the states , tall buildings , malls , ton of people , traffic prolbems etc ., out side this is small towns and villages , lowrise buildings , less shoppimg , little traffic and real friendly people for the most part

Originally Posted by leeazon

What we want....hmmm...okay...

Scenery (ie, mountains or bodies of water, etc)
The opportunity to at least try to commingle with locals
Some sense of safety/security
Reasonably close to an airport
Beaches within reasonable driving distance
Availability of decent health care
Opportunity to start a business in the future
Grocery/shops not far

Those aren't in any particular order....and when I look at the list it seems like a lot....Is it?

other than the airport ,if you mean international not regional , if I was you I would look into the area around Ocu , it is up the mountain from Chitre . one thing is you will not find many gringos up there , in chitre yes. in Ocu no . but a very beautiful area , 15 minutes from chitre , a new hospital , new mall most everything a person needs other than the odd trip to the city for the special stuff

Originally Posted by Jake

What parts of Mexico have you visited and liked? I would not let the media scare you out of Mexico unless you plan to get involved with the drug trade.

If you had access to the daily intel reports I read regarding MX, you would definitely cross MX off your list!

Originally Posted by TennVol

If you had access to the daily intel reports I read regarding MX, you would definitely cross MX off your list!

Lake Chapala, MX is a wonderful place. Look it up. Great climate and nice expat community. It's insulated from the drug related violence. All I hear are good things from the folks who live there.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

well the quality of life outside the city is about the same as you would find outside any large city in the states , panama city looks like many of the large cities in the states , tall buildings , malls , ton of people , traffic prolbems etc ., out side this is small towns and villages , lowrise buildings , less shoppimg , little traffic and real friendly people for the most part

I think the sleeper area will be Arraijan/Chorrera due to the new mall being built there. Lots of growth and the road is widening to 6 lines. It's only 15 minutes outside Panama City. That area does not have many expats now but I see that changing soon.

Originally Posted by leeazon

What we want....hmmm...okay...

Scenery (ie, mountains or bodies of water, etc)
The opportunity to at least try to commingle with locals
Some sense of safety/security
Reasonably close to an airport
Beaches within reasonable driving distance
Availability of decent health care
Opportunity to start a business in the future
Grocery/shops not far

Those aren't in any particular order....and when I look at the list it seems like a lot....Is it?

Those are realistic needs and you will definitely find that combination in Panama. What type of climate do you prefer? Cerro Azul has a nice cool climate. It's beautiful up there. I like the area but I've been reading it's having a hard time building out. Possibly due to the bad economy and lack of interest so not much activity there. You might get a great deal on an acre or two with sweeping ocean views.

Originally Posted by leeazon

I'm leaving what I've come to consider an over-taxed, over-medicated, over-fed, over-regulated country where common courtesy and consideration seem to have disappeared. I'm also in Illinois, and I have a need to be in a place with actual geographical features. I'm not starry-eyed about a move out of the country....I know there will be obstacles and disappointments....and I'm not wedded to the idea of Panama. I'm investigating possibilities and trying to learn what I can. I'm looking for a different quality of life.

You sound realistic and not someone drinking the International Living Kool-Aid. So, you'll be fine I'm certain, in Panama or elsewhere. I too really wanted Mexico when I started looking (second home, not so much fulltime living) due to proximity to U.S., but opted for Panama for a number of reasons I saw as advantages. I still think this was the correct decision for me based on the criteria that are important to me. If I started over, I might look into Salinas, Ecuador for kicks, but think I'd have to see a lot more favorable attributes than price to raise it over Panama. Others on this forum have spoken highly of Thailand, but this is not an option for me due to travel time and cost for a second-home in at least the early stage.

Originally Posted by Jake

Lake Chapala, MX is a wonderful place. Look it up. Great climate and nice expat community. It's insulated from the drug related violence. All I hear are good things from the folks who live there.

I'm sure Lake Chapala is a wonderful place. The problem is when you decide to travel outside your "safe zone" and see other parts of the country. Non-indigenous personnel (AKA gringos) tend to stick out and they become easy targets for the bad guys. I've read too many reports & seen too many photos/videos to ever want to step foot in MX.

Just my $.02 worth!

Originally Posted by TennVol

I'm sure Lake Chapala is a wonderful place. The problem is when you decide to travel outside your "safe zone" and see other parts of the country. Non-indigenous personnel (AKA gringos) tend to stick out and they become easy targets for the bad guys. I've read too many reports & seen too many photos/videos to ever want to step foot in MX.

Just my $.02 worth!

I respect your opinion. And it is my opinion that the fear mongering toward Mexico and other "high crime" countries is way over blown and I encourage everyone to not let unnecessary fear limit their choices of travel. If you want real life on the ground reporting go to travelpod, tripadvisor and location specific blogs and forums and inquire within. Great sources of unbiased information.

Originally Posted by Jake

I respect your opinion. And it is my opinion that the fear mongering toward Mexico and other "high crime" countries is way over blown and I encourage everyone to not let unnecessary fear limit their choices of travel. If you want real life on the ground reporting go to travelpod, tripadvisor and location specific blogs and forums and inquire within. Great sources of unbiased information.

Regardless of the current status of an area in terms of safety (or numerous other factors influencing a decision on where to live) the more relevant inquiry (IMO) is the direction for the future. So, could one reasonably conclude that a given area of Mexico will be safer (more secure) in ten years than it is today? Hmmm. I don't see a reversal of an undeniable trend towards greater violence in Mexico.

Originally Posted by Jake

I respect your opinion. And it is my opinion that the fear mongering toward Mexico and other "high crime" countries is way over blown and I encourage everyone to not let unnecessary fear limit their choices of travel. If you want real life on the ground reporting go to travelpod, tripadvisor and location specific blogs and forums and inquire within. Great sources of unbiased information.

Without going into too much detail, I work in a DoD office where our day-to-day business includes tracking activities of TCOs (Transnational Criminal Organizations) in MX. There is not a day that goes by without some horrible crime that gets reported to us. In addition to the "organized" criminal activities of the TCOs, there is also a tremendous amount of "normal" crime that is committed.

With all due respect, I don't believe any "fear mongering" is taking place. I have a tremendous amount of very detailed "on the ground" LE reports with associated photgraphic and video evidence. After seeing all of that information on a daily basis, I will never visit MX until substantial changes take place.

On a side note, I personally don't believe those in power in MX really want to institute any changes. Billions of dollars are entering MX as a result of the illegal drug trade. Bankers (and other well placed businessmen & politicos) are making a tremendous amount of money by laundering the TCO money. As long as there is money to be made, changes will be hard to come by.

Like I said before, just my $.02 worth....