Thread: Hello....questions

Hello everyone and thank you for the very informative forum! My wife and I recently visited Pedasi and enjoyed it very much. We are seriously looking at purchasing some land and building a small inn / B&B. We have both lived outside of Canada (3 yrs in Mexico and a few months in CR) so we have a good idea of what we are getting into. I have read all of the "living in Panama" thread and realize that while there will be challenges, Panama can be a great place to live. What about owning a tourism business? I owned a dive resort in Mexico and wondered if there are similarities. Any advice / tips would be valued and appreciated!!
Thanks and keep up the great work!

Hello marcomac, I live up the road from Pedasi in Las Tablas and will actually be hanging out there tomorrow and Thrusday. What do you want to know?

Hi MRWOOHOO,
We were in Las Tablas a week ago Monday on our way back to PTY. We are just trying to get an idea of what to expect if we start building down there. Are contractors, architects available and reliable? We have been told that you can pretty much get anything we need (appliances, furniture etc.) without having to drive to PTY. Is that true? We also wondered about vehicles...it was suggested to just buy one there instead of importing one. It seems like most of the major makes have dealers in Chitre. In general, what do you think of the future of tourism in the area? It seems to have a pretty good future potential. We aren't looking to make a pile of money...just have a good lifestyle and enjoy the country. Thanks!

You'll need some good lawyers to help you navigate through this. First: "tourism businesses" are only available to Panamanians. However, "hotel businesses" are open to foreigners and have many tax advantages. As you can see, you absolutely need to know what's what or you might end up walking down the wrong road and face some nasty surprises.

In Panama, THE KEY TO SUCCESS IS -- IT'S ALL ABOUT WHO YOU KNOW AND WHO THEY KNOW (more so than anywhere I've ever been).

Best of success,
Matt

Thanks Matt,
Yes, I know there is alot to learn...we are thinking of a "hotel" business and have had an initial conversation with a lawyer in Las Tablas. He has given us some basic rules but I'm sure there is alot more info that we'll need to know. We are having some tests done on the land to see if it will "pass" the sewage and environmental impact studies that are required. We have our fingers crossed as we really like the area!

Matt is dead on with who you know, especially in the interior. I actually came back this afternoon from filming in Pedasi and I met with several hotel owners. After hanging out in that area and getting to know what's what recently, I am happy to report that you have chosen a good area. Prices have come back down to reality and that place is increasing with popularity. The surf beach Playa Venao nearby is giving what Pedasi needed and that is something to do. Pedasi is a very pretty and safe town but zip as far as nightlife or entertainment. I have met and filmed now for the guys that own Playa Venao and they are needing the airport in Pedasi as well as the few grocery stores the entire area has. I will tell you that Playa Venao has a new high-end hotel but is now going to start a 15 bed hostel as well. Eco-Venao (hotel/hostel), within walking distance of Playa Venao has remained virtually packed and so has the Dim Hostel in Pedasi. Keep in mind these places do no advertising whatsoever. As far as getting stuff done, building, etc, my best wishes to you. Get ready for the biggest pain in the butt. We are talking "Big Bubba" is your cellmate in Attica type pain in the butt. Be prepared to oversee the entire project either personally or somebody you truly trust that is not Panamanian. I hate to sound that way but anybody that lives down here understands this. Mexicans are extremely hard and productive labor. Unfortunately you are not building in Mexico.

If you are interested here's the vid of the new hotel on Playa Venao at the El Sitio:

Thanks MRWOOHOO,
We feel that the area has very good potential too. We hung out at Playa Venao a bit and checked out El Sitio...pretty interesting construction technique using 40' containers. The property we are thinking about is 10 minutes back towards Pedasi so is right in between the 2 places. I was told that the building process is going to be painful but I'm not sure I like the "Big Bubba" part! As one of the hotel owners in Pedasi told me, "it will be the most frustrating 1-2 years of your life getting it built but will be worth it". By the way, you do some great video...especially the bikini contest!

Glad you enjoyed the video. I will be putting up some more video from Pedasi including several hotels by this evening I imagine. Is your new potential place going to be on the main road between Pedasi and Playa Venao? I do see the potential between Pedasi and Playa Venao. As long as you have the funding and a cool temper you should be fine. Just an fyi there is a hostel/hotel for sale in Pedasi that is already established.

You may have noticed a sign around 10 min. from Playa Venao (Eagles Nest) and we were thinking that there seems to be enough rooms in Pedasi at the moment so being right in between the 2 would work. I did look at a hostel/ hotel set up in Pedasi but with all the places in town running at 30% occupancy thought of trying something different. Thanks again for all the info so far!!

I just got some interesting news yesterday from my "Pedasi Insider". He's been living there for years and owns his own business and knows EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING that goes on there.

I guess: Andromeda and Costa Pedasi are STRUGGLING BIG TIME to move products. People just are NOT willing to pay those prices for "air". On the FLIP SIDE: The "Azueros" project (which is quite possibly the nicest, HIGH END project in Panama) is selling ALREADY MADE LUXURY HOMES all around the world.

On another note -- I guess there's a "backlash building" with the Playa Venao scene. Panamanians do not want to pay $1 for parking -- LET ALONE $8!!! So already some people are working on building "private beach parties" outside of Venao.

There was a few other "gossips" but I'll leave those out...

All that being said: a lot of people seem to be coming and enjoying Pedasi. It will be interesting to see how the entire vibe WARPS over the next few years.

Have fun!
Matt

I never pay for parking either :-). Usually I ask them for a permit of some sort, formal invoice or business registration and they disappear quickly. Show me ownership for the land along the road and so on...... then finish off with that I might tip them of everything is in order when I get back (at which time they are not to be seen anyway).

Best, Ed
PANAMA BANK GUIDE - LIST OF BANKS IN PANAMA

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

On another note -- I guess there's a "backlash building" with the Playa Venao scene. Panamanians do not want to pay $1 for parking -- LET ALONE $8!!! So already some people are working on building "private beach parties" outside of Venao.

The market in the Pedasi/Playa Venao area does still seem to be increasing but it will be interesting to see what happens. I have driven by Eagles Nest often and do recognize the location. One of the things that I notice is the low-end hostels seem to be doing pretty well. Just an opinion on my part and take it for what it's worth. I would be a little hesitant being located in the middle of Pedasi and Playa Venao for a hotel/B&B. Reasons being you are not comfortable walking distance to either the stores and restaurants in Pedasi or the happening surf beach Playa Venao. Currently there is a lack of (privately owned) public buses between the two. Playa Venao has now high-end and with the upcoming hostel, low-end covered pretty well. Not to mention everybody else. I know Matt has a real good handle on the area and maybe he could give further thought on the subject? Maybe you have something truly unique planned and really are experienced with this? Just make sure you have the time and money to follow-thru. It seems as though many people have built their dream only to realize they have to sell at a loss. I do stand by the statement that the area is getting more popular. Gauging the market is a little tricky nowadays.

You only need to look at WHAT'S WORKING to make a decision in my opinion:

1. Affordable inexpensive hostel type lodging (Eco-Venao is the model to check out for this.
HOWEVER: They are extremely successful because they are literally IN FRONT of the beach.
Would they be so packed if people had to walk or drive a few miles? I don't think so. At least
the surfers wouldn't be there... you could still get the tourists though). The plus side of this strategy is:
lower capital requirements.

2. SUPER HIGH END MARKET: Look at The Azueros Azueros
I think their cheapest homes are: $500,000 and they go up to 2 million.
What's their secrets? They hired one of the world's best architects Gilles St.Gilles for
starters... And THEY BUILD BEFORE THEY SELL. Like I said previous: "selling air"
is no longer working. People want to SEE what they buy before they buy.
The other thing that makes this work is: LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
They are right next to the water and it's absolutely gorgeous. It truly has
the "Hawaii Maui vibe". The downside of that is: HIGHER RISK (with cash).

The key is: LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION on both fronts. People go to Pedasi
because it's a BEACH TOWN. Being next to the water is key.

What's NOT working? "middle to upper class" prices...
Costa Pedasi, Andromeda -- those projects are NOT moving.
The numbers I've heard are VERY, VERY LOW.

The guy who owns the Costa Pedasi project has a net worth of
9 or 10 figures so he doesn't care that much. That being said,
I don't understand why he is NOT investing in the infrastructure
NOW. That would increase the value of the project. They don't
even have POWER yet? What a joke...

A Bed and Breakfast right in town could do well also... There's already
1 or 2 and I think they are doing well. They are a bit on the pricey side IMO --
so doing something less expensive could make you a big winner.

There's my 7 cents...
Matt

Matt & WOOHOO,
Thanks for the input! Our thinking re: being in between the 2 places was that there seems to be enough low end & high end rooms in Pedasi but no "middle of the road". Even though it is a beach town there are no views of the ocean from any hotel so we thought that having a view and pricing in between the $50 for Dim's etc. and $130+ for the others would work. We aren't looking for back packer business and we noticed a few middle aged travelers with rental cars so didn't think being out of town was a big problem. I'm going to consider your comments seriously though as I want to invest my money into something that will work. I was at Venao during the recent surf competition and no one asked me to pay for parking so that was a surprise to hear!

Re: Andromeda / Costa Pedasi projects, we were going to look at them but Andromeda doesn't offer a title, just shares in what I see as a failing corporation so that doesn't fly with me! They apparently have sold a number of lots but have nothing but a gate built. The Costa project at least has some homes being built and do offer a title but a gated community isn't what we want either. The Azueros project is quite amazing...a long drive down a so-so road and all of a sudden there are $400K condos and $2 M homes all over the place. I did hear that Gilles St. Gilles has cancer and is selling the hotel...not sure if that's true.

Thanks again and if either of you hear more news / rumours....all info is good at this point!

Eco-Venao a very nice room with AC and a beautiful view of Playa Venao is avail for $50 per night and an entire house for $100. Plus Eco-Venao has it's own water source which is HUGE down that way. Water is a very very big concern. Dim's starts out at $29 per a single person and an extra $15 per extra.

Wanna start a good biz, setup a small grocery store walking distance to Playa Venao.

Marcomac,

The best thing to do is to come to Pedasi and literally stay in EVERY SINGLE HOTEL, HOSTEL AND PROJECT that's out there.

You'll see for yourself what works and what doesn't work. What's busy and what's DEAD. That could save you a lot of pain.

As far as charging for parking -- I think that's just at night when they do parties.

Matt

I agree I have never seen anybody pay for parking but it maybe happening at parties? It is exciting to see the area expand, because it is. Playa Venao has done a tremendous job of providing a really nice area to hang out and do something. This is what Pedasi was lacking. There are many nice beaches between Pedasi and Playa Cambutal but how many have a nice, free, event filled, shaded spot on the beach? The sun down here is HOT and without shade you are done in a couple of hours max. The area is expanding out of necessity versus pure speculation and that is what you want. Btw, I did want to mention that Eagles Nest looks like a nice project.

Dear Matt

I bought a lot in Andromeda and I don’t think you have any idea of what you are talking about. I was there 4 months ago and from last week that I went back I can tell you I’ve seen lots of changes! The infrastructure started a couple weeks ago and next week there will be electricity! I’m planning with architect Zurcher to start building my house in 2 months and so are doing other clients that I know! It’s not right and completely unprofessional from you to be saying that Costa Pedasi and Andromeda are not moving. It’s sad that you said they are selling “air” , don’t you have vision? I invite you to meet the developers who are very warm and welcoming gentleman’s and take the time to understand their vision and the way their project will be. On both projects you can see there is a lot of construction movement going on and you just have to visit their websites to notice they have sold almost all phase 1. I was in Pedasi a year ago and there was nothing there, now there are two amazing projects in the area that will bring prosperity to the town.

Take care,
Sue

Hi Sue,
Matt was only repeating what MANY people in Pedasi have told him. I was in Pedasi in March and was interested in Andromeda but I will NEVER buy any real estate that I don't own a title to. The fact of the matter is that if the corporation fails, you lose everything so it makes no sense to me. I hope your project has a successful conclusion but for me, it was just too risky. At least one sales person has left the project as he didn't want to damage his reputation so that speaks volumes...

Hey Sue,

Marcomac is right -- I was simply repeating what someone (who's
been living in Pedasi for over 5 years and owns multiple businesses
and knows everyone) has told me.

There's nothing to be upset about if everything you said is accurate.
It sounds like you've found what you're looking for and you're all set.

I personally hope all of these projects: Costa Pedasi and Andromeda all work out great!
I don't own any land, apartments or houses in Panama and it will not affect me 1 bit
if things go south or if things "reboom".

Take care,
Matt

Thanks very much for your prompt replys guys!

I'm not upset but I think you shouldn't be "repeating" if you are not 100% sure about this. Again, I invite you to go and see whats really going on with this projects. This false statements seems to come from an envious and desperate "someone". If he was as successful as you said he wouldn't be taking the time to be talking about this projects that are not moving, dont you think?

Anyways, Ill like to let you know that I do have a title for my land! They dont sell cooperation or shares. I did all my deligences with a panamenian attorney and everything is in order in Andromeda. Marcomac if you want to take a second chance I can give you my attorneys contact information to assist you.

Sincerely,
S

As long as you're happy -- nothing else matters.

For the record: My friend doesn't have anything to do with real estate. So envy doesn't fit into the equation. What does his success have to do with anything? He's simply one of my best friends and the other day I just asked him what's happening in Pedasi. And I assure you -- HE DOES know what's going on with every single project there.

Matt

I think everybody wants to see the bottom of the Auzero succeed. I know Matt spends time there and I do when I get the chance. Btw, it is my understanding the BIG BIG Reef surf competition is going on this weekend on Playa Venao. If somebody can independently confirm this and you like to watch surfing and beautiful women I would highly advise to come down to this part of the country.

I'm totally with you Mr.Woohoo -- in my books it's already succeeding.

The only questions are: how fast will it "mature"? How will it look when it's "mature"?
What kind of people are going to move there? What kind of infrastructure is going to be built?
How many years (or decades) will it take?

Matt

Well, we do know that more and more people are showing up there so money is flowing in. If there is enough money flowing in things usually get accomplished, sometimes even in Panama

Yes, I am sure the area will grow which is why I am interested in doing something. I DO hope they don't ruin the area with big all inclusive resorts etc. buut I don't think there is enough "titled" waterfront to allow this to happen...hopefully. The area really reminds me of the Guanacaste area of Costa Rica 20 years ago, I just hope there is some control in development.

Rumor has it a new airport will be built on the Azuero peninsula... but we that live here know how the rumors are just that..