MRWOOHOO

Hello Bob, you may want to check out:

Panama Real Estate - Panama Realtor
and
Clasificados de bienes raices y autos usados en Panama y Costa Rica

These are the two sites I got a good amount of info regarding real estate in Panama. Keep in mind prices in Panama can be extremely different depending on who you are talking to or what website you are looking at. From my understanding most of the good private schools are in Panama City area. Just an fyi, there is the Island of Taboga just 12 miles off the coast of Panama City and it looks like a very nice place to live with ferries running to Panama City (causeway), daily.

Salude

Bobrob_57

Thanks Yatzi, thanks Mrwoohoo,
I'll check out those sites, as for knowing what we're looking for its hard to say exactly. We've had 4 houses in 3 countrys and never known exactly what we were after, I think we'll only know when we see it, which is why we're looking forward to coming out and seeing for ourselves.
As for schools, I've found a list of 200 or so around the whole of Panamá in the yellow pages, should be very useful.
Thanks again, Bob.

kidchico

What is the political situation like in Panama? Does it lean more towards socialism or something else? I know overall income taxes aren't as high as the US, but what about other issues?

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Ben

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MRWOOHOO

This is capitalism, no doubt. Banks and attorney's run the country. There are other influences that effect the country and its politics. This is a real popular place in the world and many groups have strong interest. I give credit to the country for being as neutral and friendly to everybody as they are.

kidchico

I would say I am pro-capitalism, something the US is slowly moving away from, so that is good to hear about Panama.

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Ben

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GordonS

I guess pretty well all governments leave a bit to be desired. I once read that the Greeks tried about 300 forms of government including democracy, anarchy, communism, matriarchy, plutocracy etc, etc . There currently aren't any governments which give everything we want, so we just have to be happy with the good and grit our teeth about the bad. Panama seems to be pretty well middle of the road as far as governments. I was quite surprised at the laws in place to protect workers. Other places in this forum you find that if you hire someone you are required to provide a large number of paid vacation and holidays. Almost sounds like a lot of European countries. Canada is fairly socialistic but not nearly as much as Panama or some of those European countries.

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Gordon and Randy,
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kidchico

The U.S. is far too large a country for socialism too exist. There are too many places for money to be wasted in government compared to a smaller country, such as Panama. That is why you can look at European countries, especially the Scandinavian countries, and see higher levels of health care and other areas. The thing that most bothers me about the U.S. is the blatant wasting of taxpayer's money. In a smaller country, I don't think there is as much of an opportunity to waste solely based on the size of the government.

Basically what I am saying, socialism doesn't bother me as much in a smaller country than in a larger country because it is easier to see where the money is coming from and going to.

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Ben

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kidchico

What is the vehicle of choice for those living in Panama? How much does it vary based on different locations throughout?

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Ben

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kidchico

As far as gun ownership goes, how does Panama stand? I read recently there was a move to ban firearms for civilians. How has this progressed?

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Ben

www.myspace.com/leakedsaturn

soltero

KidChico,
With all due respect, I think you need to read some books about Panama. The Lonely Planet and Moon Guide are both excellent.

The reason I say this: There is virtually *no* similarity between Cozumel/Cancun and Panama, other than the fact that the natives speak Spanish. The closest thing we have to C/C is Decameron on the Pacific side, and even that's a very, very weak imitation. If you had been to C/C say, oh, about 15 years *before you were born*, then you would have an idea of what Panama is like.

Also, keep in mind that Panama is a very, very tiny country, both in terms of geography and population, and that affects everything. On the good side, you can find a lot of diversity in a very short distance (unlike Mexico, which is huge). On the bad side, for example, there are really only two cities in the entire country where you can get broadband access. And some stuff you take for granted in the US -- gringo foods, cheap electronics, auto parts, etc. etc. -- are difficult to find here.

But the biggest point about the diversity: It is *impossible* to lump the entire country into one bucket. E.g., I know people who love Boquete; I can't stand it for more than a day. Of course, they think I'm nuts for living in the city. Others call Isla Grande a paradise; I think it's nothing special, and prefer some islands on the Pacific side.

In short, until you get here and look around, you can't make any lifetime decisions. But you'd have a HUGE headstart if you'd read some books (instead of online forums, where there is a ton of questionable advice).

As far as cars: Well, choice depends on where you're living. In the city, you'll fit right in with a BMW or Prado or Sentra. In the interior, 4X4 is often a good idea.

And guns: Yes, the government is working hard to reduce the number of civilian firearms. As a foreigner, you should not count on owning a gun in Panama. And why would you want to live someplace where you need one?

soltero

One more thing I forgot, in my wet-blanket diatribe (above):

You know you need a visa to stay in Panama permanently, right? From your OP, it doesn't sound like you have a lifetime pension, which means you'd need to qualify under one of the investor visas, with a minimum buy-in of US$40K -- not including legal and government fees. Maybe that is not an obstacle for you -- but for some it is. Mexico's immigration barriers are much lower, btw.

Of course, if you or your wife were born in the Canal Zone, you qualify automatically -- but you didn't mention that in your OP.

MRWOOHOO

Just a quick fyi, the immigration laws I believe have been reversed. You can be here 90 days, leave for 72 hours, and return for another 90 days. Your driver's license is good for those 90 days as well. Just swing by Costa Rica for a long weekend, no problem.

kidchico

Soltero:
Thanks for all the info. So are you telling me that Panama is in no way a relaxed region, similar to Cozumel? Have you been to Cozumel/Cancun? If not, how can you say there is no similarity between the Yucatan Peninsula and Panama? Just by your response, I would guess you haven't been to C/C.
If I had been to C/C 15 years ago, I would be 8, not unborn. Again, I am trying to find some similar to compare against C/C. By what I've read, and I have read through a couple of travel books, it does seem as though Panama is more like Cozumel. We didn't care for Cancun, so I it doesn't matter if Panama is nothing like it.
Also, the problem with books, as I'm sure you would agree, is that many are dated. The travel books I looked at were about 5-10 years old, and I already knew some of the info was wrong.
You know I am just trying to get a general idea of what Panama, and even the surrounding areas are like, right? I'm not going to move down there on a whim having never visited the area, that would be ridiculous for anyone.
As far as the guns go, I guess I'll ask the opposite question: Why would you live in place where you can't have guns?
I recently purchased a gun, and although I don't live in a crime ridden area, I feel safer now knowing I can protect my house without having to get in a fist fight I risk losing. I would say intruders are more scared of an armed homeowner than a homeowner with a phone.
Please read this.

MRWOOHOO: That is very interesting about the recent change. Do you suppose there is a limit to how many times a person could do that? It's not like someone could do that for years, could they? Anyway, that's cool, thanks for the update!

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Ben

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MRWOOHOO

I am truly not sure if there is a limit? I have been told people from the US have been living here 7 years or longer without ever getting a "real" visa. I have met somebody living in Boquete that actually mails his passport to somebody in Costa Rica and they put a stamp on it and mail it right back, no kidding.

soltero

Well, I would not call C/C relaxed, but that's a matter of perspective. Everyplace in Panama other than PC is pretty darn relaxed. Yes, of course there are similarities between C/C and Panama, but, imho, there are far more differences. Yes, about three years ago. You said you are 23; I said if you had been to C/C 15 years before you were born -- i.e., 38 years ago -- you would have some idea as to what Panama is like now. Again -- my opinion only -- Panama is very different. But, you may love it. I'm not trying to talk you out of it, only suggesting that you visit. With all due respect, there is still a ton of useful information, even if some prices and phone numbers aren't up to date. The guy who wrote the Moon Guide was born and raised in Panama, and offers a very, very knowledgeable (and loving) view of his former home. The Lonely Planet and Moon books are both about three years old; the new Moon will be out this Fall. Yes -- and the first mistake that people make on forums like these is to talk about Panama as if it were one homogenous place. As I tried to explain, different regions are very, very different from one another, even though it is a very small country. To say whether you'll like Panama or not is the equivalent of trying to tell someone they'll like the USA; lots of people in NYC (or wherever) can't handle Montana (or wherever), and vice versa. Bocas is completely different from Boquete which is completely different from Los Santos which is completely different from the city etc. etc. etc. Good. Read, ask questions in advance (as you are), plan a two-week itinerary, and see as much as you can. I'm not going to touch that in a Panama forum. But the fact remains, the government here makes gun ownership very, very difficult. Ditto Mexico. While Woohoo is stating the reality, you should also know that Panama immigration is trying hard to crack down on these permanent tourists who leave the country for a few days every three months. In fact, reforms are underway to create a different class of visa for snowbirds who come here six months out of the year. But to do what he is describing is clearly against the intent of Panama's law. And -- again my opinion only -- it would be a big mistake to plan a move to a country where your residency is at best risky and at worst illegal.

One final thought -- and I am NOT trying to talk you out of Panama: If you liked Cozumel so much, why are you not looking to move to Mexico? There are lots of wonderful places there, still relatively undiscovered, and costs are comparable to Panama. (I lived in Mexico for two years.) Plus, residency requirements are much, much easier. Just for consideration, not argument. :-)

MRWOOHOO

Renewing the tourist visa is in no way illegal. I personally feel the government recognizes that people from some countries come to Panama, spend money, and "usually" create less problems although there are exceptions. My attorney, that is fairly connected in government, was trying to push me to declare a visa until the change happened. He is also incredibly honest. If you can show me that it is in anyway illegal I would be honestly interested.

MRWOOHOO

Mailing it is Illegal.

GordonS

Thanks Soltera for your balanced comments.

From my experience living in foreign countries, I am convinced that attempts to bypass the legal provisions by mailing passports etc, is both wrong and shortsighted. When I settle down, I don't want to be looking over my shoulder all the time, wondering if those two men walking toward my house are from Immigration armed with questions. I don't want to increase my stress level, I want to reduce it.

Same thing with tax evasion : shortsighted and stupid. Laws are generally passed for valid reasons for the good of the general population. When we cheat, lie and secretly violate laws, we end up damaging ourselves.

But hey! What do I know?

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Gordon and Randy,
Canada

soltero

I did not say that getting a new tourist visa by leaving the country for 72 hours is illegal; I said that is contrary to Panama's intent in granting the tourist visas: viz., are those people you know who have lived here for seven years really tourists? Of course not; why is Panama not within its rights to close that loophole? And it is a fact that the government is trying to create a new class of visa for these people. See http://primapanama.blogs.com/_panama...ion/index.html for a pretty good roundup of recent activity, and http://baumanblog.sovereignsociety.c...-immigrat.html for a summary of the proposed new immigration laws.