Thread: Is it worth living in Panama?

It's impossible to name a "best" in Latin America, because it depends on such a huge array of personal preferences. But for me, the big draw to Panama was infrastructure: roads, water, phones (land and cell), shipping (cargo and express), etc. In other words, while I'm very happy with an infrastructure that's 20 years or so behind the US or Canada, I did not want to go back 30 or 40 years -- I did not want to give up some of my gringo comforts. Yes, there are other countries farther south that can match Panama's infrastructure -- Uruguay, for example -- but I wanted a warmer climate. The reason I mention this: In Belize, you will definitely be further off the grid. Maybe that is what you want, and while I think it's fun for a week or so -- it just isn't what I wanted for the rest of my life. :-)

I agree with your thoughts on Belize. Although it is very beautiful I do realize that it is in the huricane belt. Beyone that, the real estate I found is fairly expensive, at least in the Ambergris Caye area.

Another downside to Belize is that the infrastructure appears to be undeveloped. Road, electricity and health care are reported to be behind many other neighboring countries as well. If you don't mind forgoing the comforts of "civilization" there are many nice spots of paradise.....

There is a new person that moved into the condo that I rent a room in and he just came up from Buenos Aires. He said he absolutely loves Argentina.

Hello everyone, I have another question. I had it in my head that I would only live on the caribbean side of Panama. Apparently warmer waters and less tide. What do the fine readers of this forum recommed?

You hit the primary positives, plus many would say the Atlantic beaches are nicer (I disagree, but that's just me). The potential minuses:
> Less infrastructure (internet access, doctors, veternarians, dentists, hardware stores, appliance repairmen, boat/car mechanics, crummier roads, etc. etc. etc.)
> More rain, throughout the year
> Water for household use can be a *big* problem in many areas (i.e., not enough of it)
> More problems with phony land titles and ROP squabbles
> More petty crime (but that's just what I hear; I don't have stats to back it up)

The water issue is one worthy of mucho due diligence -- it isn't just the Atlantic side, it's a problem in many rural areas of Panama -- but it will be hard to make much of a life without potable H2O.

As far as infrastructure, everyone I know who lives over there sort of plans their life around their monthly (or more often) trips to Panama City. You will be making lots of trips, guaranteed, whether for medical care or government line-waits or that part for your dead refrigerator. If that sounds like fun, fine.

But hey, it all gets back to what's on your wish list. E.g., if you live and die by the snorkel or surfboard, all those things that seem like big deals to me will be petty, laughable annoyances to you.

However: It also seems to me this conversation is kind of aimless at this point. Argentina? Belize? Uruguay? Saskatchewan? All have their good points. Rather than continue to fish for the "best place" (which exists only in each unique psyche), maybe you could tell us what *is* on your list. Viz., what do you want? (In ranked order, if possible.)

My suggestion is to visit and see what you like.

Originally Posted by MichaelJamesPorter

Panama has very good Health services even in the town of David. I don't think anyone has mentioned the town of Boquete yet, but various places there have been special adapted to buy land or a house and benefit from Health Care, Investment, Retiree Services and Schooling. The locals are just lovely too. I lived there with my wife for 2 years and really enjoyed it. We had to come back to France for personal reasons though.

David and Boquete both sound like great places for someone like me. I love "small town" quiet places to live.
I know that it's easy to meet women in Panama City, however, I'm not sure about David and Boquete. Is it fairly easy to meet local women there?

There are women up there looking for men but I cannot vouch for the nightlife? Just smile and say hello to the locals, you will meet them. The Boquete area is really beautiful and they do have good health care facilities in David.

Hello , everybody , it was a pleasure to read all this useful information about Panama ,and I thank you for them , however there is something I would like to know and I haven't seen you touched the subject yet :what's the minimum wage in this country and ,if someone will happen to know, how much are the wages in health care ?Or ,at least , can anybody tell me where to search for such informations ?

I think minimum is somewhere between $300-400 a month. Not sure how much higher for health care? I usually mention to people that working for somebody in Panama is probably not what you want to look at. It is good to take what you currently know, find a niche, and turn it into something for yourself. The opportunities are endless here but working for somebody at a local's wage would make life truly different.

Mr. Woohoo, loved that comment: "would make life truly different" In fact there appear to be a number of expats who have "gone native" (earning Panamanian wages and living like a Panamanian) and are happy and satisfied. For most foreigners that might be a traumatic change but it would really be a learning experience that is well worth while. I think that most of us would like to have a safety net of some sort in case we really ran into difficulties but "going native" as the Brits used to say about Englishmen who lived like the natives in their various colonial territories is possible and could be a lot less stress-free than our current life stye. Wonder if I'd be up to it? I'll have to think about that for a while. Has anyone else out there any comments on living in Panama on Panamanian wages?

I think economics is probably the reason to move to Panama; livng expenses, housing costs and medical costs are much lower. And it is a haven for retirement too plus. Other than the dollars and cents, Panama is a beautiful place and friendly people.

Panama is a bargain for what you get and the people are great. I do know people that make local wages as well. My girlfriend makes a pretty low wage as a public school teacher and I hear stories of her breathing in insulation, teachers passing out in the schools because of the heat and fans not working, water being shut off. My girlfriend gets called in to public school on a Sunday to "help clean" because of the insulation and if she does not show she will get in trouble. Just something to think about.

Thank you , MRWOOHOO , for all the informations , a minimum of 300-400 $ is a low salary, since I saw that the rent for an apartament might go as high as 1 500 $ !!!
It seems from your posts that you are familiar with the life overthere , could you tell me please ,if Panama is a good place to open a bussiness in the health's field ?
I mean , it is possible to have problems with authorities in getting all the licenses needed for a medical center for instant ?

My sincerest suggestion would be to talk with an attorney. If you wish I do have an attorney that specializes in business? The law firm he is part of is an incredibly well connected group of people in Panama government from different political parties. You can private message me and I will send you contact info. I could also provide a list of attorney's from the US Embassy if you wish? There are also people in the legal profession that are part of the forum and maybe able to assist. A good attorney is going to be your best friend in Panama.

Thank you for your suggestion , Mrwoohoo , I would definitely need an attorney when I'd decide to move and start a bussiness. However, there are a lot of informations that I should get from local people posting on forums like this one or from official sites of Panama government ,whatsoever, before taking a final decision .Not to mention that I should first come overthere for a while to check myself the living style and the opportunities .

A non-doctor in healthcare in Panama will typically make $600-800/month. (Above $800, they have to pay income tax, so that's sort of a ceiling for many folks in many jobs.) I have two such friends, and both live (with roomates) in apartments that go for $150-200 per person. Those $1500 apartments you are seeing are targeting a different demographic.

You are always able to provide good info and stats Soltero. The pay is fairly equal to a public teacher with some experience. Now if you can make that money in a medical facility(or any field) in the interior such as Chitre or David I think you could probably live modest but fairly decently. In Panama City you are scraping by.

...however, keep in mind, you cannot simply move to Panama and start work -- unless you are a Panama citizen. You cannot even stay here unless you have a visa. Many, many professions are not open to foreigners, period. Generally speaking, you cannot work here legally unless you have an employer who is willing to sponsor you -- before you enter the country. Panama's attitude is the same as most countries: They want to make sure that all jobs are filled by Panamanians first, and outsiders are hired only if there is absolutely no one local who is qualified to perform that particular function. (Note that I am talking about regular jobs -- not freelancing as a web designer, masseuse, whatever.)

Very true.

You should according to this article below:

http://www.panamainfo.com/en/advantages-living-panama

Good luck.

Originally Posted by soltero

A non-doctor in healthcare in Panama will typically make $600-800/month. .

Thank you. Let's suppose that from this salary someone has to pay 200 & rent for an apartement , can he live decently with money left ?

I found this afirmation in the link provided by liowkc :

"Foreigners who purchase property in Panama enjoy all the same rights as Panamanians
Unlike other countries, in Panama foreigners who buy property enjoy all the same rights and protections as Panamanians "

Is that true ?

As far as property rights go on titled land, that is accurate. There is a difference when it comes to ROP property. A foreigner cannot directly purchase ROP land until it is titled (that is my understanding).

Thank you. Let's suppose that from this salary someone has to pay 200 & rent for an apartement , can he live decently with money left ?

I speculate, yes, they do.

One thing I've noticed in my travels elsewhere is that it's a decidely "gringo" thing to live alone. A lot of people in foreign countries live with (usually a lot of) roommates.

So if one earned $600/mo, it's likely they don't have like $600-$200 = $400 disposable income left over each month.

It's more like there's 4 people contributing to rent, and it's $600 - ($200/4) = $600 - $50 = $550.

Of course this wouldn't apply in a case with a family where the man only works, but from my personal observations I bet the general principle is true for Panama as well..

Foreigners who purchase property in Panama enjoy all the same rights as Panamanians

Huh? Not even close. They cannot vote, they still have to get a visa for permanent residency (there are several types), and the "permanent" part really isn't. E.g., my pensionado visa says "indefinite," meaning that they could change the rules at any point and I would have to leave. Not likely to happen, but it could. And I have to re-prove my qualifications every year (it hasn't been enforced, but it is the law). Virtually every Panama law has different stipulations for foreigners and true citizens; gun ownership, for example. The difference that that article refers to is that, unlike many countries, a foreigner without a visa can *buy* property, anywhere in the country; many don't allow that, and others have restrictions in certain areas (like beachfront).

As far as ROP: Anyone can purchase ROP property, and anyone can lose it (and probably will). ROP simply means the person now living there does not have a clear title registered with the government.

A realtor who was helping us last month said that in many cases the people living on ROP property just don't want to spend the money to register that land. Some have been there for generations and can't see any strong reason to pay the fees either. (manana?) Some even don't know that they don't have it legally registered until some one beats them to the registry office.

Many thanks to everybody for responses . I didn't know what ROP means,so I 've made some researching and found out this :

"ROP property is government owned property that has been "squatted" on by a Panamanian citizen (or Panamanian corporation) for a certain period of time (usually several years), and the seller is claiming a "right of possession" or "right of use" of the property, which he is then selling to you. Usually, when buying ROP land, the objective is to then apply for a title over the ROP land, and purchase the land from the government."
(source : http://www.attorney-panama.com/property_surveying.htm)

Now, if I understood well ,having ROP means they're not the legal owners of the land and I'm thinking why in the world should someone purchase a land from a Panamanian who is not actually possessing the land but only having the right to use it for a limited period of time?
And what if the Panama government wouldn 't want to sell the land to a foreigner later ? It seems to me like wasting of money and time ,I would better buy a property from citizens who actually do own some land.

why in the world should someone purchase a land from a Panamanian who is not actually possessing the land but only having the right to use it for a limited period of time?

They shouldn't. And, it gets hairier: Some unscrupulous real estate agents and developers will *tell* you the property is titled, and maybe even show you a title, but after you pay your money and then go to register the property, you find that there's someone else with a title ahead of you. Best bet -- especially on the Atlantic side, where land fraud seems to be more rampant -- is to hire your own, independent lawyer (not the agent's) to do a title search for you -- before you hand over any money.