Thread: Introduction

Hello all! I've been living in Panama for the last 5 years. I just wanted to share my experiences and thoughts with everyone especially those people considering Panama as a retirement destination.

I was banned on another site, boquete ning due to my colorful but completely honest commentary. Their members couldn't handle the truth and attacked me viciously. Then the moderator stepped in and deemed me a repeat troll and banned me. Of course that was a lie but regardless I could care less because I only wanted to see the true colors of the expats living in Boquete. My conclusions: two faced, narrow minded, egotistical, self-righteous, and vindictive are the best ways to describe their most vocal members. These expats took over the community of Boquete and have declared themselves mayors and gatekeepers of their new found paradise. Apparently someone like me who is honest and speaks truth is not welcomed there at all. Ha ha! No problema because I didn't want to move there anyway! LOL. Ed, I think someone like you would be pitchforked, tarred and feathered by the gringos living in Boquete, so don't move there out of your own personal safety!

My assessment after reading this board for a long time is this. A lot of people are unhappy living in Panama but at the same time they are able to make it work out. I think Panama is a beautiful and diverse place to visit and live. The problems lie with the people and local culture. There is a clash. It's not just the manana syndrome because patience will solve that problem but there are much deeper problems also. Many of them have already been discussed on this forum. The bottom line is this. I recommend Panama if you are completely self-sufficient and happy with doing your own thing and ignoring the outside world. If you can live like that then Panama will be a great place to retire. However if you are a sensitive person with standards, highly principled and you want to have a social life and integrate with the local community then you probably will not like living in Panama. Maybe at first it will be great but the novelty will wear off over time. There is not much culture here, nothing to sink your teeth into. Panama is a banking and shipping center. So unless you worship money or large boats, Panama won't offer you much of anything else. But if you are a nature lover then Panama is the jackpot. It has incredible natural scenery, mountains and beaches. Enjoy the land and sea but don't concern yourself with the people and you will love it here!

I also want to clarify that there are many different Panama's. The main city, reverted zones, interior, azuero, deep interior, bocas, san blas, colon, etc. Each of these regions is totally unique so it is important to pick a region that suits you best. The most Americanized regions are the reverted zones. They are the cleanest and most well kept and the people in those areas tend to be more dignified and respectful. The interior can be very rustic at times. The people can have a hard edge and are much less refined. Climates are very different between regions also. So make sure to do your homework in that regards.

Overall my stay in Panama has come to an end. But I am leaving here on good terms. I had considered moving to Boquete but decided it wasn't going to suit me. Meanwhile I'll chime in on this forum now and then with my colorful commentary. However I won't go so far as Ed who pulls no punches. I respect you Ed for being brutally honest and for having a spine to speak the truth unlike most expats who land in Panama. Kudos to you!

Welcome to this site Jake. I also follow the other forum.
If you leave Panama where are you going. This site is great and the opinions are very valuable,(usually)

You have to feel sorry by people who are so threatened by other opinions (or the truth). So tell us more about how to avoid problems and make things work in Panama.

Originally Posted by bruceba

Welcome to this site Jake. I also follow the other forum.
If you leave Panama where are you going. This site is great and the opinions are very valuable,(usually)

Hi bruceba! I've made a short list of places that offer what I want. But it's still in progress and I have not decided where my next destination will be. If I enjoyed flying long distances then I would include Asia into the mix, but for now I will stick to Central and South America. I will PM you the list when it is ready.

Please don't let my words dissuade you from choosing Panama. As I said before Panama would be a great place if you could live in a bubble and just enjoy the land, sea and air. And it is possible, but you must plan carefully because once you commit then it's hard to back out. Give you an example. I bought a small farm that is beautiful of about 3 acres. I thought that would give me enough breathing space, but I still hear loud music now and then. And I've got some minor neighborly squabbles as well. I'm the only gringo in the area and I think by now they all secretly hate me. LOL. I really don't care because I am nice to them and that's all that counts. I don't need them to like me because they are irrelevant to me. I didn't come to Panama to appease the locals or anyone else for that matter. I came here to improve the quality of my life. And although the environment and culture were a huge downgrade, the extreme low cost of living makes up for it.

Let me be clear to all the politically correct gringos out there that Panama is no where near as pretty as a first world country. The attitude of the people is poor and they have very low standards. They lie like Persian rugs. We gringos need to stick together and maintain our principles and ethics and lead by example. This whole nonsense of adapting to the local culture is just politically correct posturing. Why would you want to adapt to an inferior culture who does not value time, honesty and work ethics? Not me. Come to Panama and make your life better. That's why you are here. If it means isolating yourself and hanging out with other trusted gringos then by all means do it. You can have a good life in Panama living that way. Don't feel obligated to do this or that out of peer pressure. You have no peers here, just other expats who don't know you. Learn Spanish when you feel the need to. You will know when the time is right. The only thing you are obligated to do while in Panama is to obey the laws here and that's it. Make people earn your respect. Otherwise they will take advantage of your good will. It's a jungle out here.

Overall if you have not been to Panama, come and check it out. Hire someone to give you a tour. Get a feel for the vibe. If it clicks then rent for 6 months and go from there.

Originally Posted by jonr

You have to feel sorry by people who are so threatened by other opinions (or the truth). So tell us more about how to avoid problems and make things work in Panama.

jonr, one day I will expose all. With five years doing real estate development in Panama, I've seen a lot of dirt (no pun intended). But there is a way around all the nonsense and you can succeed and make a lot of money here. It just takes a working recipe and having the right contacts.

The secret that works for me is buy a large piece of land, distance yourself from others, adopt stray dogs and raise them (they will be your best friends), and just do your own thing and enjoy life. Make a friend here or there but stay very guarded. Many gringos come to Panama and need jobs to survive. They are vultures and opportunists. Some are legit but others will just rip you off. Lots of gringos do drugs and coke. Stay away from that element.

If you have any questions come to this board first and ask away. Be specific. Don't just jump into things by yourself or the sharks will eat you alive.

Originally Posted by Jake

jonr, one day I will expose all. With five years doing real estate development in Panama, I've seen a lot of dirt (no pun intended). But there is a way around all the nonsense and you can succeed and make a lot of money here. It just takes a working recipe and having the right contacts.

The secret that works for me is buy a large piece of land, distance yourself from others, adopt stray dogs and raise them (they will be your best friends), and just do your own thing and enjoy life. Make a friend here or there but stay very guarded. Many gringos come to Panama and need jobs to survive. They are vultures and opportunists. Some are legit but others will just rip you off. Lots of gringos do drugs and coke. Stay away from that element.

If you have any questions come to this board first and ask away. Be specific. Don't just jump into things by yourself or the sharks will eat you alive.

so to me know that answers a big question on why you might be leaving , we lost alot of real estate people when the economy went bad . in pedasi alone 5 couples packed up and left, as nothing is moving down here , lots of flippers and 10 %ers are gone . i bet south america is the next hot spot , if you can find a place with a reasonable goverment ,

I intend to take a look at Ecuador although it might be similar to Panama (but with lower land prices). Or Uruguay for a more European flavor (but high prices).

Originally Posted by jonr

I intend to take a look at Ecuador although it might be similar to Panama (but with lower land prices). Or Uruguay for a more European flavor (but high prices).

Uruguay is a good choice. Much cooler temps. European flavor is a huge plus. Go for it. Ecuador might be out of favor right now. Been reading about issues regarding politics, future direction and money controls. Definitely a place to visit and check out but stay in tune with political climate. I think they take 2% of money that leaves the country. What's to say it won't go up to 5% one day? That puts me on the fence.

If you like big city amenities with quaint European flavor consider Vina del Mar, Chile and Miraflores, Peru. Both places appear superior to Panama City at least on paper. Never been to either but will check them out one day.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

so to me know that answers a big question on why you might be leaving , we lost alot of real estate people when the economy went bad . in pedasi alone 5 couples packed up and left, as nothing is moving down here , lots of flippers and 10 %ers are gone . i bet south america is the next hot spot , if you can find a place with a reasonable goverment ,

For me it's a bit different. I was fortunate to get past the learning hump and succeed. So I'm one of the few that made it out alive. Actually I'm leaving Panama to retire so Panama has been good to me in that sense. It helped me retire. And to be frank I will never adapt to the local culture here and have no reason to want to. It's just not appealing to me. Others may feel differently and good for you but not me.

I'm comfortable living in Panama and I think a lot of retirees will be also. But you absolutely have no margin of error for mistakes. Panama is not liquid so the more you put in, it's harder to get out. Always ask around first and don't think you know it all or you will get burned. Locals know how to play the gouge the gringo game. They've mastered it. It's part of Latin culture which I despise, but it is what it is. Instead of taking it in the shorts all the time we gringos need to unite and get back in their face and teach them a lesson. There is a thing called human culture that we all forget about. Or just plain human decency. That culture trumps all. The more we gringos know the less we will be burned. Ed's approach is more radical and may involve confrontations and violence. I'm not advocating that but at least stand up and push back. Do not be intimidated by them. Always remember that you are here solely to better your life and you owe nothing to no one here in Panama.

Originally Posted by jonr

I intend to take a look at Ecuador although it might be similar to Panama (but with lower land prices). Or Uruguay for a more European flavor (but high prices).

some friends went there last year to look at dirt , he said there are beautiful 4 lane hiways running down the coast and not a hotel in sight , but with the goverment they have he decided not to invest .

If you've found living in Panama challenging, doen't even think of moving to Belize!!!

On Boquete regarding Mr Jake

Mr Jake you're quite the fake
you sorrow in misery.
You come across as a wounded soul
Shunned by "ning" you see.

Nah Mr Jake I know you're fake
cause you've been to "ning" many times.
You pose as one or another on there
and disrupt each good thing you find.

"Naay" you say..."not me today,
I'd never say one unkind word".
But that's all you do and it's all so true
that you disrupt everything heard.

This man's a scam and a nut actually.
He travels in disguise.
He one day is sweet but acid the next
and his ego of very large size.

Come to Boquete and see for yourself !
(this man does not speak words true)
People there love to share
and kindness is generally the rule.
soooooo.....
Jakes a fake make no mistake...to believe him you'd be the fool!

i am sure that's the case, everything else he writes you had nothing to say about though, so let's assume you agree.

I do not take one word this man says seriously because of the slanderous nature of 90% of his posts. It's a mixture of his perceptions and his need for his own ego bolstering both of which make it difficult to discern what to believe is truth. He may mis-perceive, and his ego can not rest without his own pumping it through discourse. I mentally just go to delete mode.

There's a difference if your motive is to come to another country to make profit...specifically, substantial profit. For the individual who comes with his or her modest retirement income and desires to learn of another culture, to meld in and to actually give back, well....your entire outlook is different. You see the life there as a challenge of an exciting kind, meet the frustrations and learn patience while all the time learning the language, culture and government. Those who come to make the quick buck want to get in and get out all the richer. They may have more diffuculty developing patience, adjusting to the the ways of the culture and not take loss on the cheek so well. These tend to become more critical, bitter and vindictive. They oft have a hard time accepting they have failed and will blame every person and institution around them. Resentment of those that have adjusted and enjoy their lives here ( Boquete, Panama)comes out as acid blogs and negativity. My hunch on Jake. In that he is not "settled", his aim is to unsettle those around him with all authority. It's sad. He's an angry, unhappy fellow. He needs to move on and find himself...along with his utopian location of choice.

yes, for sure, if you come here to collect your retirement checks, have sex with a variety of hookers (amigas) you would not be able to do at home, drink lots of local beer and rum. have a basic cottage, go out and shop for some stuff, read a book, eat at a restaurant, hang at the local bar for a while, do some diving trips / fishing and such, panama is as close to paradise as you can get, assuming you can handle the humidity and heat.

on the other hand, if you come here to setup a business or need to do business to make a living, then plates from 2008, sewer water running over the street since 4 years back, constant deliberate mis-billings, new unknown charges that take months to correct, electrical outages, endless paperwork process, having no water pressure for 5 months and all that becomes a huge problem.

if you add that they drive with full headlights at night, pass you in the emergency lane, go around your motorcycle on the inside cause you leave to much space on the inside and almost kill you, block every intersection they can, deliberately get into accidents to collect money, never stop for pedestrians, always lie in traffic court, then it becomes to much for some people, unless you work from home and offshore.

offshore means that you have no panamanian clients. it's the only way to live here.

panama is not about adjusting, it's about doing the right things and not give a flying fk about the rest.

i have adjusted quite well, when i leave this country i will do so having convinced 20-50 people not to come here, at least 2-3 years unpaid rent, electric, water, cable and internet bills unpaid since 4-5 months with every company + chargebacks for all the payments with phony termination dates on the slips i ask for and use as evidence. now, that is adjusting and getting on terms with the local culture. anyone else is a failure and you know it.

most people come here with an open mind and just expect somewhat decent people around them. the other little problems you can deal with.

jake is not an unhappy nor angry. he's just a guy that expected basic honest down to earth HUMANS, something that is rare in panama.

Originally Posted by tellucy

yes, for sure, if you come here to collect your retirement checks, have sex with a variety of hookers (amigas) you would not be able to do at home, drink lots of local beer and rum. have a basic cottage, go out and shop for some stuff, read a book, eat at a restaurant, hang at the local bar for a while, do some diving trips / fishing and such, panama is as close to paradise as you can get, assuming you can handle the humidity and heat.

on the other hand, if you come here to setup a business or need to do business to make a living, then plates from 2008, sewer water running over the street since 4 years back, constant deliberate mis-billings, new unknown charges that take months to correct, electrical outages, endless paperwork process, having no water pressure for 5 months and all that becomes a huge problem.

if you add that they drive with full headlights at night, pass you in the emergency lane, go around your motorcycle on the inside cause you leave to much space on the inside and almost kill you, block every intersection they can, deliberately get into accidents to collect money, never stop for pedestrians, always lie in traffic court, then it becomes to much for some people, unless you work from home and offshore.

offshore means that you have no panamanian clients. it's the only way to live here.

panama is not about adjusting, it's about doing the right things and not give a flying fk about the rest.

i have adjusted quite well, when i leave this country i will do so having convinced 20-50 people not to come here, at least 2-3 years unpaid rent, electric, water, cable and internet bills unpaid since 4-5 months with every company + chargebacks for all the payments with phony termination dates on the slips i ask for and use as evidence. now, that is adjusting and getting on terms with the local culture. anyone else is a failure and you know it.

hi you must be Eds twin sister Lucy LOL

I don't have a twin sister.

Looks like the folks over at boquete ning decided to crash the party here. A few words of advice. You've got your little playground all setup nicely with all your politically correct minions licking each others rear ends to appease each other so as to gain social acceptance into the gringo club. There is no reason to follow me here on a forum that allows free speech and an open flow of opinions and thoughts unlike your moderated playground or shall I say advertisement and promotional site for Panama. I must have made such an impact over there on boquete ning for you to stalk me way over here. Everything I said about Panama on your site was 100% true. The same holds true on this forum as well. Let the readers decide for themselves. They are grown up adults and can think for themselves. The problem is that you do not have the guts to accept the truth. And thus the problem lies with you rather than my words.

you do now, i have been inspired enough!

Originally Posted by EdBowers

I don't have a twin sister.

Given that Jake was banned and not allowed to speak his mind, I would have to take his side rather than ABLeever.

If you argue correctly and have some basic evidence to back it up you are never wrong. Banning someone or just announcing that your brain "goes into delete mode" means, "bollocks I am knackered".

Originally Posted by Contrail

Given that Jake was banned and not allowed to speak his mind, I would have to take his side rather than ABLeever.

If you argue correctly and have some basic evidence to back it up you are never wrong. Banning someone or just announcing that your brain "goes into delete mode" means, "bollocks I am knackered".

Bogus IPs/IDs and going out of his way to maliciously slander another...besides constant negative banter that did nothing but disrupt the threads. He was tolerated well beyond his cut-off time and then some...then add a few more days. His time was up. He pushed himself to his own extinction.
I'm out...talk among yourselves. You and Senior Jake are not going to steal my peace !! I will not be back here.

Let me clarify some facts. I am a real person living in Panama. There is nothing bogus about me. I never used a bogus ID or proxy server. I did not slander anyone. I only posted commentary on boquete ning site that included my personal experiences and opinions. Everything I posted was 100% truthful. Apparently many of the members of the boquete ning site did not agree with my commentary and instead of refuting or addressing any of my facts they attacked me calling me names such as troll and telling me to "fck off". That did not deter me and I continued to post commentary. At some point the moderator posted a message claiming that I was some other user and banned me. This is not true and I told the moderator to correct his post and unban me. Of course he did not and that was the end of the story. I am now here on this forum adding commentary about Panama.

If you don't believe me then read the comments left by ABLeever. This is proof of the type of responses and personal attacks I received in response to my truthful commentary. I have no need to lie. There are far too many liars in Panama including the locals and gringos. Both are just as bad. A liar is a liar of any skin color.

I respect other people's opinions even if they are different than mine. I will just respectfully disagree. I do not attack people by calling them names and telling them to go away. That is plain silly and immature. There are many emotionally immature gringos who land in Panama that need to grow up and grow a pair. This country is not for the faint of heart. You will get rolled and taken advantage of if you portray yourself as weak and timid. I encourage everyone to speak out and speak the truth. Do not be afraid of peer pressure and being kicked out of the "in" crowd. You don't need them anyway. Create your own bubble and insulate yourself from all that nonsense.

Panama can be enjoyed thoroughly if you know how to setup your life here. Not only will you be fighting the local culture but also the pettiness and drama that is brought down from North America. It's a challenging fight but you can win.

If anything, JAKE has brought over lots of new contributors to the forum! We welcome your participation on non-Jake subjects too!

Originally Posted by jonr

I intend to take a look at Ecuador although it might be similar to Panama (but with lower land prices). Or Uruguay for a more European flavor (but high prices).

After doing further research on Uruguay I will give it a thumbs down. At least in my case it is. Sweeping tax reforms. No good. It's not a problem of paying taxes but the bureaucracy and privacy intrusion due to required reporting is not my cup of tea. You can also expect tightening of the noose down the road. Too cold of a climate as well. In my case I'd want citizenship and a second passport eventually and Uruguay taxes its citizens 0.5% of worldly assets. So if you got $1MM that's $5K/year flushed down the toilet. No thank you.

UruguayLiving.com

US Dollar Taking a Beating

Sociedad Southron • View topic - Leaving Uruguay

Leave your money in Panama in a foundation. You can have money in Uruguay as well under that legal umbrella. The best is to live in one country, have citizenship in a second and your money in a third. That's the very basic ABC of asset protection.

Why don't you get a second passport from Paraguay instead?

Originally Posted by Contrail

Why don't you get a second passport from Paraguay instead?

Contrail, your comment intrigued me as I had not heard of Paraguay being a passport-easy jurisdiction. Except for those with ties to Paraguay (e.g., by birth, descent, etc.), my materials indicate that the only option (and it is not a bad one) is a person who has resided in Paraguay for at least three years, exhibited good conduct and has continued gainful employment is eligible for citizenship.

Of further interest, the source further points out that during recent decades large numbers of official passports were sold illegally and that as a result border officials look closely at North American and Europeans traveling with a Paraguayan passport.

When Copa starts with direct flights in December I promise to submit a complete and accurate report. The residency requirement is 5,000 dollars and a clearance record so it's an easy thing to start.

I mentally just go to delete mode

Sounds like a fine plan for posts you don't like. But why make that choice for others by supporting the banning of a user?

I'll agree that one would find Jake disruptive if they were trying to maintain the concept of Panama as the perfect paradise.

Originally Posted by jonr

Sounds like a fine plan for posts you don't like. But why make that choice for others by supporting the banning of a user?

I'll agree that one would find Jake disruptive if they were trying to maintain the concept of Panama as the perfect paradise.

we all agree that panama i not perfect , but if one is not happy then just leave . jake has said he was here for 5 yrs and it must have been ok while he was flipping land and making loot , but now that has stopped he feels the need to blast the place on his way out . why? sounds like sour grapes to me .