Thread: El Valle Trip Report

I just spent a day in El Valle, Panama's crown jewel where all the rich Panamanians have second homes and it's also home to a handful of expats. It was surprisingly hot and humid up there today, maybe 5 degrees cooler than the coast, but still a bit uncomfortable. The main reason I go up there is to cool off and not much else. Anyway I had lunch at a favorite expat place. The food was not very good food to be honest. Beer was great though. Nice people there. El Valle does attract more earthy people which I like. They seem to be genuinely happy most of the time because they probably are. Anyway, after a bad meal I tried make up for it with a good dessert. So I stopped by a new coffee shop that has a modern and trendy vibe. It's adjacent to the new Pekin store. I had high hopes thinking wow, this is what El Valle needs more of. I ordered a cafe frio and it came to be me luke warm with no ice. Disgusting. Oh well, I didn't want to complain so I ordered the chocolate cake because it looked too good to pass up. They get their desserts from Deli Gourmet in the city. Well that too tasted awful. It must have been over a week old sitting in the display case. Strike three. I drove around a bit, but there's not much to see in El Valle. It's just one main road on up to the El Macho zip lines which is a really bumpy ride near the end. Many side streets take you to private homes and hotels but not much more. There is a small zoo I like to go to, but not this time. There's really not much to see and do here. There's no central park where people gather like you find in just about every other Central American city. I just don't get it. Why is El Valle so revered? There just is not much there and after dark it's lights out. On weekdays it's pretty dead too. Why would people want to live there? It would get boring fast. I'm not complaining, but just sharing my experience. I felt like I wasted my time and gas money going there.

I think it's all relative. I've been to some amazing towns in other countries where there is so much to see and do and everything is convenient. Walking towns are the best that have central parks with benches, fountains, people, cafes, restaurants, and galleries lining the park. It's not that El Valle is bad though. If I had nothing to compare to then I'd probably think El Valle was a neat little town up in the mountains. But I know better.

I haven't been to Boquete yet and may give it a run. I've heard the same good and bad stories similar to El Valle. Regardless it should be an interesting trip because Boquete is a top rated retirement destination. I have my doubts though. I'll report back after my trip.

Nice reading your post on El Valle. I will be taking a recon visit to Panama in two weeks, primarily looking at the Pacific Coast, especially the Azuero Penninsula but will make a stop in Penonome because I hear it is a little cooler than the coast. My first stop will be in El Valle for three days to just look around and check out the market I read about that happens on Sunday, than off to Penonome for a few days, than to Chitre to rent a car and off to the Penninsula. I heard El Valle is pretty dead but I thought I'd check it out anyway. Sounds a little to upper class for me, but I'll see. I'm not poor by any means, but living around mansions would not be for me.
Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

Originally Posted by Gordo

If I had nothing to compare to then I'd probably think El Valle was a neat little town up in the mountains. But I know better.

I think this every time i hear people talk about how great panama is. Havent they been anywhere else? I dont hate it here, not at all actually, but it is very very low on my retirement list. There are so many nicer places in the world.

Originally Posted by janl

I think this every time i hear people talk about how great panama is. Havent they been anywhere else? I dont hate it here, not at all actually, but it is very very low on my retirement list. There are so many nicer places in the world.

What other places would you consider retireing too? just curious. I have traveled throughout Mexico and most parts of Central America, but that's it. I do hear some good things about Argentina and Chile, but never been to either country.

Originally Posted by John22

Nice reading your post on El Valle. I will be taking a recon visit to Panama in two weeks, primarily looking at the Pacific Coast, especially the Azuero Penninsula but will make a stop in Penonome because I hear it is a little cooler than the coast. My first stop will be in El Valle for three days to just look around and check out the market I read about that happens on Sunday, than off to Penonome for a few days, than to Chitre to rent a car and off to the Penninsula. I heard El Valle is pretty dead but I thought I'd check it out anyway. Sounds a little to upper class for me, but I'll see. I'm not poor by any means, but living around mansions would not be for me.
Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

Hi John. I don't want to dissuade you from checking out El Valle. I've been there over a dozen times over the past few years mainly to cool off from the coast. So I've eaten at various restaurants there like Pinochio's Italian (pretty good food, service and desserts), Brushetta (hard to describe their menu other than healthy), Ty's sports bar (great wings and nice Canadian owners). I've also eaten at Casa de Lordes which is a fancy hotel. Real beautiful there, you need to eat there during your visit. The menu is very short and is as close to gourmet as you will get outside Panama City. It was good food, but not exceptional. The prices were reasonable. The salmon I had was a treat because it is rare to find that served in the interior. But it was a bit dry and I've had better. The dessert I had was terrible, an apple crumb thingy that tasted like it came from Super99. But overall I'd go there again if I want fine dining. The other items on the menu looked real interesting.

It's a different world in El Valle. The 28km trek up the hill on a very curvy road is incredibly scenic. Most houses there are spectacular mansions on large lots fully manicured just like in the states. Houses are all visible from the street. Rarely will you see walled compounds. It tells me they are all for show or maybe building restrictions forbid walls. Who knows? Nothing wrong with having a mansion to show off to the world but that's not my scene. The owners only visit on weekends bringing their whole family. During the week only caretakers are on the premises. My take is the residents have their own rich lives and families to deal with and would have no interest in interacting with an outside gringo. Just a hunch but I could be wrong. So IMO the social scene would be sparse if you lived up there full time.

In my case I would get bored very quickly living in El Valle. The dining options are not diverse enough for me and I'd have no social life. If I needed to buy something special like a pair of shoes or pants, I'd have to drive 40 minutes to Coronado where a Machetazo is being built right now. That's way too far for me. I had always pondered the thought of possibly moving to El Valle until my trip today. It just didn't click for me. Where I live now about 8 minutes away from Coronado is just as beautiful and more convenient to shopping with better choice of restaurants and much closer to the beach. The only caveat is it is hotter here but it's worth the sacrifice.

Originally Posted by Gordo

Hi John. I don't want to dissuade you from checking out El Valle. I've been there over a dozen times over the past few years mainly to cool off from the coast. So I've eaten at various restaurants there like Pinochio's Italian (pretty good food, service and desserts), Brushetta (hard to describe their menu other than healthy), Ty's sports bar (great wings and nice Canadian owners). I've also eaten at Casa de Lordes which is a fancy hotel. Real beautiful there, you need to eat there during your visit. The menu is very short and is as close to gourmet as you will get outside Panama City. It was good food, but not exceptional. The prices were reasonable. The salmon I had was a treat because it is rare to find that served in the interior. But it was a bit dry and I've had better. The dessert I had was terrible, an apple crumb thingy that tasted like it came from Super99. But overall I'd go there again if I want fine dining. The other items on the menu looked real interesting.

It's a different world in El Valle. The 28km trek up the hill on a very curvy road is incredibly scenic. Most houses there are spectacular mansions on large lots fully manicured just like in the states. Houses are all visible from the street. Rarely will you see walled compounds. It tells me they are all for show or maybe building restrictions forbid walls. Who knows? Nothing wrong with having a mansion to show off to the world but that's not my scene. The owners only visit on weekends bringing their whole family. During the week only caretakers are on the premises. My take is the residents have their own rich lives and families to deal with and would have no interest in interacting with an outside gringo. Just a hunch but I could be wrong. So IMO the social scene would be sparse if you lived up there full time.

In my case I would get bored very quickly living in El Valle. The dining options are not diverse enough for me and I'd have no social life. If I needed to buy something special like a pair of shoes or pants, I'd have to drive 40 minutes to Coronado where a Machetazo is being built right now. That's way too far for me. I had always pondered the thought of possibly moving to El Valle until my trip today. It just didn't click for me. Where I live now about 8 minutes away from Coronado is just as beautiful and more convenient to shopping with better choice of restaurants and much closer to the beach. The only caveat is it is hotter here but it's worth the sacrifice.

Thanks for all the info. It helps a lot. I have been reading more on the Coronado area including Gorgona and a few other places towards Chitre. It sounds like that area might be more suitable for what I am looking for. I will be in Panama for almost three weeks and will have a car most of the time, so I definitely need to check that area out. I am single and want to be able to have some nightlife where I live. Not much (I'm 61), but I still like a good time now and than.

Originally Posted by John22

What other places would you consider retireing too? just curious. I have traveled throughout Mexico and most parts of Central America, but that's it. I do hear some good things about Argentina and Chile, but never been to either country.

It is a VERY PERSONAL choice. I get asked that question all the time and I guarantee that my answer will turn many people off so I don't bother responding. But I love where I am moving to next. I've visited there numerous times and it clicks for me and feels like home. It suits exactly the lifestyle I want. But at the same time I could see how someone else would be turned off by my choice because it does have many negatives. However I could care less because I am living for me and not someone else.

Move to wherever appeals to you. Simple as that. Don't listen to other people. Listen to your gut. Avoid letting numbers and statistics dictate where you live because they can be very misleading.

What are your must haves? Don't compromise on those or you will regret it one day. Then start filtering down your choices from there. Immigration, visas and banking laws are objective criteria and can be deal breakers. When you arrive at your short list, make many scouting trips. Go with the place that feels right. Your gut never lies.

Originally Posted by Gordo

It is a VERY PERSONAL choice. I get asked that question all the time and I guarantee that my answer will turn many people off so I don't bother responding. But I love where I am moving to next. I've visited there numerous times and it clicks for me and feels like home. It suits exactly the lifestyle I want. But at the same time I could see how someone else would be turned off by my choice because it does have many negatives. However I could care less because I am living for me and not someone else.

Move to wherever appeals to you. Simple as that. Don't listen to other people. Listen to your gut. Avoid letting numbers and statistics dictate where you live because they can be very misleading.

What are your must haves? Don't compromise on those or you will regret it one day. Then start filtering down your choices from there. Immigration, visas and banking laws are objective criteria and can be deal breakers. When you arrive at your short list, make many scouting trips. Go with the place that feels right. Your gut never lies.

You are so right. Your gut never lies and is the one thing that a person can always count on, but I do feel that statistics, etc. and other peoples' opinions can be useful, but only to a point. I will only use this information when I visit as a point of reference, but my sights will be set on where I would be the happiest. In the end, my gut will tell me that.
Good luck in your new location. Sounds like you have the right attitude to live anywhere.

Hi!
Good report and attitude Gordo!!

I go to El Valle a lot and have found that in the morning it is beautiful and cool, around noon is when it tends to get humid and then the rain clouds roll in for a shower or two.

I REFUSE to drive the road at night, especially after the 12 KM marker - where I live and then the street lights on the road end! Very curvy and hilly after that.

BTW where did you eat yesterday? Have you tried the little restaurant in the strip mall before the market where there are shops. On one end is Don Pepe's (I won't set foot in the place because too many people have gotten terrible food and then food poisoning. On the other end is a little restaurant that has GREAT food for a very reasonable prices. I was up there on Friday and got chicken fried rice and chow mein to go. It is the best I have found in the area. They also have a wide variety of pastas and other dishes that are equally excellent!

I have gotten royally screwed with the "Chinese" in the Super 99 mall in Coronado three times and will not go back there again.

I love to go to the thermal pools in El Valle and relax and also do a mud facial. The warm waters are very relaxing and therapuetic to sit in. I also love to walk through the paths at the orchid center as you enter town. Also I will sometimes take a book to the waterfalls and sit and read in the rainforest.

Mary
www.whypanama.com

All of the "negatives" that Gordo has pointed out are actually positives for my wife and I. Everybody has different needs/wants/desires in a retirement locale.

YMMV.

Originally Posted by TennVol

All of the "negatives" that Gordo has pointed out are actually positives for my wife and I. Everybody has different needs/wants/desires in a retirement locale.

YMMV.

Yep. I agree. However, I will say that it is possible to live in an incredibly peaceful and quiet environment and yet be only a few minutes away from a lot of entertainment options or dare I say tourist zone... cringe. There is this notion that somehow touristy places are all noisy and bad. Not true. I've lived in quiet suburbia type neighborhoods within walking distance of busy central parks and you would never know it was bustling so close to home. Matter of fact, I'm moving to the mountains in another country where it is so beautiful and tranquil yet within a 10 minute drive I have access to every conceivable shopping, outdoor markets, gourmet restaurants, art galleries, bars, etc. Lots of street side cafes where I can sip a cappucinno made properly and people watch in the park. In the evening I can have a gourmet dinner prepared by a real chef while listening to live jazz music every night of the week if I choose. Or I can dine at the tipico comedors or street side vendors for $3 a plate. Then I can return to the creature comforts of my mountain home. I have the best of both worlds.

I'm not implying that you are mistaken, just that a lot of people make wrong assumptions and run with them. I've had many disagreements with people who claim that not having amenities nearby is a blessing. Not having a nightlife and live entertainment options nearby is wonderful. I think they are either rationalizing or just unaware that it is possible to have it both ways.

Gordo:

So where are you moving to from PANAMA? ("I'm moving to the mountains in another country where it is so beautiful and tranquil ...).

When making a move make sure you check out the place on a holiday weekend (November is a big time party time every weekend).

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Mary, I don't want to mention the restaurant. They are good people and their normal menu is usually good. On Sundays they have a special offer. It was make shift and not done properly. Some was good, others not that great. It was a decent meal but I wouldn't do it again.

Thanks for the restaurant tip. I will check it out next time. I think what bummed me out was I went up to El Valle to cool off yet it was hot and humid up there also. So I was kind of frazzled. That's when it hit me that there's really not much to do up there that I couldn't do right near my house. I've eaten at a few fondas there and all have been decent to good. There is a vegetarian place across the street from Gourmet Coffee near the entrance. I don't remember the name. They also sell hand made jewelry. Their stuffed bread is delicious. They are good people and cook with the best ingredients.

Sorry to hear about the bad Chinese in the mall. It's hit or miss there like just about everywhere in Panama. I always special order and tell them exactly the ingredients I want. I also specify low salt and little oil. So my meals there usually turn out good.

Hey Gordo!

I know who you are talking about and you are right on your assessment.

We are at the 11.5 KM marker and yesterday was beautiful here with the nice cool breezes.

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Originally Posted by whypanama

Gordo:

So where are you moving to from PANAMA? ("I'm moving to the mountains in another country where it is so beautiful and tranquil ...).

When making a move make sure you check out the place on a holiday weekend (November is a big time party time every weekend).

Mary
www.whypanama.com

I've been there during their busiest month. It's a spectacle but I generally don't like crowds and just stay at home or hide out in the quiet part of town. Not a big deal for me. I'm living rural anyway and can avoid the crowds if I choose. I'll PM you Mary as to the location. Meanwhile let's just change the topic and focus on Panama. Where I'm moving to shouldn't matter unless you were born with the exact same genes as me, which I doubt.

Originally Posted by Gordo

Yep. I agree. However, I will say that it is possible to live in an incredibly peaceful and quiet environment and yet be only a few minutes away from a lot of entertainment options or dare I say tourist zone... cringe. There is this notion that somehow touristy places are all noisy and bad. Not true. I've lived in quiet suburbia type neighborhoods within walking distance of busy central parks and you would never know it was bustling so close to home. Matter of fact, I'm moving to the mountains in another country where it is so beautiful and tranquil yet within a 10 minute drive I have access to every conceivable shopping, outdoor markets, gourmet restaurants, art galleries, bars, etc. Lots of street side cafes where I can sip a cappucinno made properly and people watch in the park. In the evening I can have a gourmet dinner prepared by a real chef while listening to live jazz music every night of the week if I choose. Or I can dine at the tipico comedors or street side vendors for $3 a plate. Then I can return to the creature comforts of my mountain home. I have the best of both worlds.

I'm not implying that you are mistaken, just that a lot of people make wrong assumptions and run with them. I've had many disagreements with people who claim that not having amenities nearby is a blessing. Not having a nightlife and live entertainment options nearby is wonderful. I think they are either rationalizing or just unaware that it is possible to have it both ways.

Fortunately, my requirements for a retirement location don't include a "properly made" cappucinno, gourmet food of any type or any exciting nightlife. After 25 years of Uncle Sam paying me to travel to some of the more interesting locations around the globe, I look forward to the boring life in El Valle! If my wife or I require any excitement, we can always go spend the weekend with her family in Juan Diaz de Anton, or we can go to PC!

Originally Posted by TennVol

Fortunately, my requirements for a retirement location don't include a "properly made" cappucinno, gourmet food of any type or any exciting nightlife. After 25 years of Uncle Sam paying me to travel to some of the more interesting locations around the globe, I look forward to the boring life in El Valle! If my wife or I require any excitement, we can always go spend the weekend with her family in Juan Diaz de Anton, or we can go to PC!

Good for you. Some of us want more out of life even after we are over the hill. To each his own.

Originally Posted by TennVol

All of the "negatives" that Gordo has pointed out are actually positives for my wife and I. Everybody has different needs/wants/desires in a retirement locale.

YMMV.

Lol so yr wife and you like bad food, coffee, and cake?

And having bars at a 3 hour drive rather than 20 mins..... whatever you can infer from that.

Originally Posted by janl

Lol so yr wife and you like bad food, coffee, and cake?

Originally Posted by janl

Lol so yr wife and you like bad food, coffee, and cake?

maybe they are just happy knowing who there neighbours wont be LOL

Originally Posted by janl

Lol so yr wife and you like bad food, coffee, and cake?

If we did enjoy bad food, coffee & cake (which we don't, BTW) does that mean we have a standing invitation to have dinner at your place?

Originally Posted by TennVol

If we did enjoy bad food, coffee & cake (which we don't, BTW) does that mean we have a standing invitation to have dinner at your place?

lol no i got great espresso and chocolate cake and my girl can cook so welcome anytime

Originally Posted by TennVol

Fortunately, my requirements for a retirement location don't include a "properly made" cappucinno, gourmet food of any type or any exciting nightlife. After 25 years of Uncle Sam paying me to travel to some of the more interesting locations around the globe, I look forward to the boring life in El Valle! If my wife or I require any excitement, we can always go spend the weekend with her family in Juan Diaz de Anton, or we can go to PC!

I think you are saying the same thing as TennVol was saying, live in a nice, quiet area, but be able to go someplace not too far away for something different sometimes. For some, living in the mountains but being close enough to take a quick trip to Coronado, or, like you, live in El Valle and occasionally take a drive to PC. What's the difference?

John22 - of course TennVol is saying what TennVol is saying.

Originally Posted by John22

I think you are saying the same thing as TennVol was saying, live in a nice, quiet area, but be able to go someplace not too far away for something different sometimes. For some, living in the mountains but being close enough to take a quick trip to Coronado, or, like you, live in El Valle and occasionally take a drive to PC. What's the difference?

It is one long ass drive from Coronado to PC. Double that time for El Valle. Fuggedaboudit. It's not even about saving one's precious time but sucking up all that gas making the Exxon Mobil execs even richer not to mention kids needlessly dying to secure the oil contracts. Walking towns rock. Just live on the quiet outskirts of town and walk or peddle your bike in. Great exercise to work off the calories from all the fine dining from the night before. El Valle is a weekender town and the infrastructure reflects it. There are just enough restaurants to handle the weekend crowd and no more. Not a whole lot of options. Rich families have big mansions to gather in so they don't need a local watering hole to chill out in the evenings. For some full time expats El Valle is the ideal location. However for others it won't make the cut. Depends on what you are looking for.

Now on to standards, come on people. If you can't make a cafe frio right or serve up a decent chocolate cake then why even bother at all? El Valle of all places should have higher standards than that.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

John22 - of course TennVol is saying what TennVol is saying.

OK, I got the wrong person, my bad, but I still made a good point. I'm hoping to move to a nice, quiet place, but still want to be near enough to a decent size town for a little variety. Who wouldn't?

Originally Posted by John22

OK, I got the wrong person, my bad, but I still made a good point. I'm hoping to move to a nice, quiet place, but still want to be near enough to a decent size town for a little variety. Who wouldn't?

Then skip panama cause even pc isnt decent by any means :P

Originally Posted by janl

Then skip panama cause even pc isnt decent by any means :P

Take a look at Albrook/Clayton. Reminds me of the USA. Very well kept and the people there are higher class, more professional and dignified. It feels like a totally different world than the rest of Panama. I think even Ed might like living there . The Albrook Mall is impressive and will serve all of your shopping needs. Food and service are generally good out there. The only downside is houses are expensive and it's hot and humid there. Also the beach is far away although with the new toll road you can get to the Caribbean in an hour or so. If you want the "just like it is back home" living experience then choose any reverted zone to live in. The neighborhoods and roads used to be kept pristine before the U.S. reverted the areas back to Panama but they still are semi-well kept, at least far nicer than the rest of Panama. Coronado has somewhat of a ghetto feel. People who live there will know what I mean. Just visit the corner mini supers especially the one in Gorgona. It just has that unsavory flavor if you know what I mean. The Albrook area would be my best bet if I were to stay in Panama. But the heat and high cost of land there are deal breakers for me.

Originally Posted by Gordo

Now on to standards, come on people. If you can't make a cafe frio right or serve up a decent chocolate cake then why even bother at all? El Valle of all places should have higher standards than that.

I lived in Panama for six years in the 90's, departing in 1999 and I last visited in Jul 2009. I was never able to find decent chocolate cake anywhere in Panama......

.....Fortunately, my choice of a retirement locale isn't dependent on chocolate cake availability!

Originally Posted by TennVol

I lived in Panama for six years in the 90's, departing in 1999 and I last visited in Jul 2009. I was never able to find decent chocolate cake anywhere in Panama......

.....Fortunately, my choice of a retirement locale isn't dependent on chocolate cake availability!

I had a pretty good chocolate cake at the El Rey last night. When I say pretty good I mean edible. 95 cents for a slice. Their 50 cent Duran cappuccino is decent too because it is dispensed by a machine and therefore no one can screw it up.

But I agree that baked goods are generally bad in Panama. I find it odd how after I cross the border at Paso Canoas there is a bakery called Super Pan that delivers excellent baked goods, even pizza. The border town itself is a complete dump but there is a ton of good shopping there. Chicken Bros. serves up a delicious Tex mex chicken fajita. Blows away anything you can get in Panama. I'm not taking stabs at Panama but look at the clues. 100ft past the border into Costa Rica and the food is done right. Not all of it, but at least they have great bakeries and chicken fajitas.