Thread: Coronado?

[QUOTE=Gordo;64441]

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

Nakedguy, what specifically did you like about Cuba other than the people? I'm sure the beaches are first rate. How's the food, entertainment, night life, women, cost of living?

besides the great people the culture , is very good , the people have pride in themselves and their country , the beaches are beautiful , the sand is like walking on flour , the food is good if you eat local , canned crap from north america is not , the cubans love music so the night life is good if you enjoy music , the women are beautiful , as all latin women are and the cost of living would be low if you could live there , the average wage is $15-30 a month , cab drivers and waiters make more because of tips , you would neverown a car as the goverment owns all except what was owned before castro took over , that is why you see so many restored old cars , those are private and are passed down from father to son or daughter . you can buy a scooter now . and you might not ever find a safer country , in havana at midnight anywhere you want to walk , no prolbem .drugs are not much of a prolbem , if you are caught with drugs 20 yrs ,no early release , if you get caught selling , life , like until you die , no early release , greatt system .

Cuba is a beautiful place with lots of variety. It has some great scuba diving. I've only been there a couple times but thought that I'd really like to explore the country more. It is much bigger than I had imagined. I think people are nice everywhere outside of cities but the people in Habana were about the nicest city people I've found. The US probably isn't far from allowing citizens to visit Cuba. Right now I understand there is an economic embargo by the USA against Cuba. I don't think it is technically illegal to go there but it is illegal to spend money there. The Cubans don't stamp USA passports but give you a separate visa document. Too bad Cuba seems to be in the path of every hurricane that comes up the Atlantic Ocean.
Belize is actually a very nice place. I consider Belize City to be one of the most undesirable cities in Central America. It doesn't have much of a population but either does the Country. I think the country has about 300,000 people and a quarter to a third live in or near Belize City. I've driven through Belize a half dozen times and really liked the rural area. People are nice and English is refreshing for someone whose Spanish sucks.
From my limited exposure, I favor Panama for it's stability, generally low prices (especially food), and much better than average Central American roads. I've found people to be nice in rural areas everywhere, even in the US (joke).
I'm looking for a place that doesn't have a lot of people and where groceries and necessities are available within a hour or two and can't wait to visit again and do more exploring.

I spent a lot of time in Habana. Not because of its cuisine and charm that is for sure. When the idiot at immigration asks me why I am coing to Cuba I always tell him because of the great food. That works every time, their eyes just about pop out their heads.
Food is nonexistent even if you got $. Stores are empty, the top hotel's buffet for $50 is worse than eating at KFC (not that they got KFC). You won't find chocolate even in CUC (Convertible Peso) stores from time to time, no cheese or orange juices for months. Rum is cheap and good. Santiago Anejo is the best, about $15. The cheapest rum they sell from tanker trucks (you go down with a bottle and they fill it up) it is not for human consumption though, no idea about the price. Cubans drink like in Orwell's 1984, their only escape from reality is in the bottle. The government is happy to oblige them. Chicken in the CUC stores look like road kill from the Stalingrad retreat, strangely only legs usually in huge frozen blocks. Never seen breasts, maybe some Cuban hybrid that has no upper body?
Beef is treated in the store by meat cutters like it was fine jewelery. Touched with awe monitored closely. You will find beef in 3 stores only, one by the Russian embassy that looks like a chess figure 300' tall and made out of concrete. Commie idea of art.
When crossing the street cars have their right of way, don't try the walk in front of because they will stop thing. Part of their "culture" part cars have no brakes.
Every girl wants to marry you to take them out of that hell hole. You will feel like Sean Connery in his prime because women will throw themselves at you. Even if you are 300 Lbs and stink, have no hair and suffer from a bad case of halitosis.
It stinks. Literally. Piss and crap and raw sewage mixed with exhaust fumes from trillion year old engines.
Police is like cockroaches all over the place. They don't bother tourists but terrorize the population. They will ask for papel from your wife if she is Cubana and will try for bribe to not arrest her for being a Jinetera (prostitute). 80% of the girls will sell, going rate is $30, their boyfriends (not pimps) will approve. Total moral swamp, byproduct of the wonderful system Obama is trying to implement, namely everyone is equal socially just Marxist crap. Abortions are as common place as taking vitamins and raise that many eyebrows too.
People throw garbage all over the place without any second thought. Buildings are falling apart especially after a rain. Look up a balcony might fall on your head.
Buildings were last painted in the 60s. Every single local will try to fuck you over for money, some literally. Waiters are rude food sucks where you can get it. When walking keep your eyes on the road or you may fall in a 20' hole. Driving in Cohimar (former fishing village part of Habana)is a teeth rattling experience. You can lay down on the road and you could not be seen, potholes generally are road wide and 2 feet deep. There is an oil refinery speck in the middle of the city belching smoke 24/7. Smell of sewage all over the place. They got water 2 times a day for an hour when the population rushes to fill up odd containers. Power outs last half a day twice a week at least. They make $15 a month but that's ok cause there is nothing to buy in regular stores and to help the population they just stopped the libreta (kinda food stamps) system.
People take to the seas in inner tubes not cause they are adventurous but because they don't give a hell if they live or die if there is a chance they can get away from there.

Varadero is tourist city, never been there never will as I don't go to Cuba unless I must and I will not spend a penny if I can help it because it goes to Castro at the end. Going to Varadero and saying you know Cuba is a bold statement. Habana beaches are covered with all sorts of garbage, mostly plastic so much so that you can't see the sand. Cubans are big on music and dancing and sports. Mostly because those 3 are the only legal way to get out and tour the world. Of course it is part of the culture too, their musicians are world class, dancers second to none. You don't see many fat Cubans. Al Bundy comes to mind. When he was asked "You look great, are you working out?" his response was "No I barely eat".
Cuban girls when escaping the country one way or another and live in any place where there is access to food tend to balloon up like a blimp trying to make up for all the years of food deprivation.

All the above I experienced first hand and for years and years of repeated exposure. Now are you sure you want me to talk about Belize more?
Panama is a bliss compared to either places and I know jack about it.

Now back to the anchor babies thing. Anyone with any clue about that?

Before I forget. Habana Bay has oil 3" thick floating on it. People who fish off the Malecon (walkway along the ocean front) do so not because they are fishing enthusiasts but because they are trying to eat. You can buy pork out of cars' trunks if you know the guys, killing your pig is legal only if you raised it your apartment's bathroom and no one is the smarter. Killing a cow and eating it is a capital offense, you are better off killing a human. Milk is found in powdered form and for children only. When they have it. You can buy boxed milk in CUC stores. Selling lobster in a restaurant (some private small restaurants called Paladars exist) is illegal so is beef unless it is a state run restaurant. Calle Diez had a paladar, the best food in Cuba until the owner made the mistake of talking to a French TV crew about doing business in Cuba. That was 3 years ago. They shut him down a week after the interview aired in France and Canada. I got tons of first hand experience and knowledge of Cuba and I know how Communism works, smells and walks. You got specific Cuba questions I can give you a no BS answer but this is a Panama forum so PM me.

Sir... thank you for the wealth of information. Interesting read.

Sir Stressalot: I enjoyed reading your impressions of Habana. You have obviously spent a lot more time there than I have. I did not see much of the things you did but trust your reporting. My favorite memory is going diving off a small village west of Habana. The people were absolutely wonderful and initiated a celebration of our first Cuban dive. They opened up with their own rum. We did augment it though, along with numerous beers. I'll go back when I get a chance.
I also liked Gordo's reporting of La Valle (on a different thread). I don't disagree with anything he said but quiet appeals to many...including me.

No problem, use the Thanks button liberally.
One more thing, I suggest everybody to visit Cuba. It is a must. It will show you what Socialism always ends up like without exception.
If you do go via the Bahamas and use Air Cubana from there. No stamp in your passport. Do not take USD with you. Exchange it to Euro or CAD back at home or the Cuban government will penalize your exchange with 10% (fee).
I challenge you to spend as much money as you can on food. Then at the end of your trip think about making it on $15 a month after accommodation expenses since I the typical idiot will try to defend the system by saying Cubans get free apartments and water. Apartments = pig stalls and shacks in the majority of cases, the commies and those who pay lip service may get upgraded to wardrobe size concrete boxes. Prices are more expensive than Panama's in CUC stores with one of a kind goods selection: THE MILK, THE OIL, THE DETERGENT. The Cuban gov succeeded identifying with the country as far as it's people go. If you are anti gov it means you are anti Cuba. Imagine if you were anti Democrat and you were labeled as anti USA. But wait isn't it exactly what is going on in the good old USA now? Dear God help me quit the rant, I hate communists.

Originally Posted by Sir Stressalot

I suggest everybody to visit Cuba. It is a must. It will show you what Socialism always ends up like without exception.

Actually pretty much all communist countries end up being capitalist countries so im not sure how true this statement is.

Nice reading your experiences though. Ive been to cuba many years ago, Habana and Varadero and had quite a nice time. I guess a lot changed since then for the worse, cause when i was there the food was absolutely great. I ate awesome grilled lobster for $10-12 about 2-3 times a day for 3 weeks I liked the people a lot, but didnt like that when u spoke with people u sensed their fear.

Didnt have any bad experiences there. Actually my then gf forgot her purse in the bus that dropped us of in a hotel in Varadero with passport, credit cards, cash, the works. We thought we would never see it again, but after getting in touch with some 24 hr number of the travel agent they called us back and said they found it but the bus was already on the way back to Habana, but would come back a few hours later after their shift. We drank mojito's in the bar till around 3 am and there they were with everything still in place. im talking +$1500 cheques etc. we gave them both $50 and a few mojito's and they left again around 4.30.

Like North Korea eh? They got so much Capitalism they can't wait for it to be over. People can get into trouble just for talking to a tourist. They are like mice, you clap your hand loud enough and they all scurry.

Originally Posted by Sir Stressalot

No problem, use the Thanks button liberally.
One more thing, I suggest everybody to visit Cuba. It is a must. It will show you what Socialism always ends up like without exception.
If you do go via the Bahamas and use Air Cubana from there. No stamp in your passport. Do not take USD with you. Exchange it to Euro or CAD back at home or the Cuban government will penalize your exchange with 10% (fee).
I challenge you to spend as much money as you can on food. Then at the end of your trip think about making it on $15 a month after accommodation expenses since I the typical idiot will try to defend the system by saying Cubans get free apartments and water. Apartments = pig stalls and shacks in the majority of cases, the commies and those who pay lip service may get upgraded to wardrobe size concrete boxes. Prices are more expensive than Panama's in CUC stores with one of a kind goods selection: THE MILK, THE OIL, THE DETERGENT. The Cuban gov succeeded identifying with the country as far as it's people go. If you are anti gov it means you are anti Cuba. Imagine if you were anti Democrat and you were labeled as anti USA. But wait isn't it exactly what is going on in the good old USA now? Dear God help me quit the rant, I hate communists.

yes it would be nice if you stopped the rant , dont go there if it bothers you that much , and then maybe you will become SIR NOSTRESSATALL

Originally Posted by janl

Actually pretty much all communist countries end up being capitalist countries so im not sure how true this statement is.

Nice reading your experiences though. Ive been to cuba many years ago, Habana and Varadero and had quite a nice time. I guess a lot changed since then for the worse, cause when i was there the food was absolutely great. I ate awesome grilled lobster for $10-12 about 2-3 times a day for 3 weeks I liked the people a lot, but didnt like that when u spoke with people u sensed their fear.

Didnt have any bad experiences there. Actually my then gf forgot her purse in the bus that dropped us of in a hotel in Varadero with passport, credit cards, cash, the works. We thought we would never see it again, but after getting in touch with some 24 hr number of the travel agent they called us back and said they found it but the bus was already on the way back to Habana, but would come back a few hours later after their shift. We drank mojito's in the bar till around 3 am and there they were with everything still in place. im talking +$1500 cheques etc. we gave them both $50 and a few mojito's and they left again around 4.30.

that is the side of the coin I all saw in Cuba , I love the place and the people , and is their goveerment much different than most ?

Originally Posted by Sir Stressalot

Like North Korea eh? They got so much Capitalism they can't wait for it to be over. People can get into trouble just for talking to a tourist. They are like mice, you clap your hand loud enough and they all scurry.

and this has what to do with panama , time to chill a little .

Originally Posted by Sir Stressalot

Like North Korea eh? They got so much Capitalism they can't wait for it to be over. People can get into trouble just for talking to a tourist. They are like mice, you clap your hand loud enough and they all scurry.

Expected response. So thats 2. Just for fun, name a few more

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

that is the side of the coin I all saw in Cuba , I love the place and the people , and is their goveerment much different than most ?

Thats the problem. Obviously castro is a scumbag like they have in many other countries. But in the other countries they cant blame communism. He robs his people. I think that happens in almost all 3rd world (capitalist) countries, and in a way even in the 1st world ones :S

Maybe his opinion about Cuba is somewhat colored by his feelings towards communism, or maybe the country has really changed a lot for the worse in the past years. I would have to go back there to have an opinion cause i really dont know. However, i have a friend that lives there part-time, and the other part here in Panama, and he really loves the place.

Originally Posted by Sir Stressalot

Let's just say all those raving posts about Ambergris Caye are delusional. The beach does not impress, roads are nonexistent except in San Pedro, it took me 1.5 hours to drive 5 miles in a gold cart to the North, garbage and rotting things everywhere along that road. SWAMP with bird size mosquitoes that will attack even at noon, overpriced stores selling a very limited assortment of goods. If you see a property lets say listed for $300,000.00 what they will take is a third of that but mark it up like idiots anyway. Businesses are desperate for patrons, watching restaurant owners is like watching a fly that is being tortured by an evil boy. You feel like squashing them to put them out of their misery. Transportation is based on golf carts which is a good thing if you got kidney stones cause you gonna pass them guaranteed.
Downtown is a heap of dusty shacks with the occasional newer building, the expat community radiating a kind of quiet desperation of exiles trying to put a good face on.
Belize city feels dangerous even in daylight. The top hotel looks like it will crumble any minute due to lack of maintenance.
The only thing I found nice there are the people.
Hard working, helpful and cheerful.
That country needs a lot of foreign investment and 20 years of development to consider living there.
But this is only me, I maybe too critical, you decide. If I am and I say I like what I see in Panama so far, imagine Belize.

Ambergris Caye is a thin island that is mostly just mangroves. The ocean side beach is full of grass that is used as shelter for smaller fish who move to the reef once they are larger. The second largest reef in the world is 50 yards off the ends of the dock's. Its amazing. Unlike a typical each where you wade in at the shore. On Ambergris Caye you want to take a kayak out 50 yards and tie up to floating buoys and snorkel the reef. We had no issues with bugs as long as you stay on the ocean side of the island as the breeze keeps them away. The lagoon side is basically just mangrove swamps, the entire island probably averages a few feet above sea level. All of the islands or Caye's are low mangrove islands. They may not be your ideal place to live and that's probably good as they are ideal places for reef fish to breed.

The people were by far the greatest feature of Belize. The average person was outgoing and kind. The government and infrastructure (Phone, Cable, Water, Power) is mostly corrupt and and a mess. They are setup to maintain monopoly's and gouge the population. They are the reason the country of Belize is so far behind other country's in terms of development. This is the single biggest reason we did not move to Belize.

The roads outside of San Pedro are bad but the population outside of San Pedro is also very tiny. And roads have never been the typical form of transportation. The island has historically used a water taxi system to reach the north end of the island. The taxi runs every 15 to 30 minutes I think and picks you up at the end of the dock and brings you to the city. The prices are higher of course, its an island and a tourist one at that. Prices are always higher. Just like prices in Boca's Del Toro are higher in panama, nothing to complain about. Bugs in Boca's, Yes. Shacks built in Boca's and dirty, Yes.


The main land is beautiful. Rolling hills covered with tropical forests falling to the ocean as well as large swaths of open prairie. Belize city is the exception, avoid it if possible.

The area has been hard hit by the dramatic drop in tourist dollars, just like every other area that relies heavily on tourists. All in all we love Belize and wish them the best as they try to get the government and utilities taken care of. They are currently trying using some pretty extreme measures, I hope it works out for them.