Thread: Panamanian Rules of Engagement-Survival in Panama

You cannot loan money to anyone in Panama if you expect to be repaid.

You cannot rent to anyone in Panama if you expect to be paid the rent.

You cannot loan your car or scooter or bicycle to anyone if you expect it to be returned. Possession is 9/10ths of the law here.

You must supervise workers extremely closely.

You cannot prepay for services.

You cannot depend on anyone.

You must assume that a price quote is high because of your nationality.

Panamanians will always tell you what they believe you want to hear.

Yes could mean no, no could mean yes.

Time means nothing here.

Your word will be taken with a grain of salt.

Verbal or written contracts are not enforceable and are changed when possible, usually when it is in the Panamanians advantage to do so.

Integrity and reputation is not important here.

Customer satisfaction is not important nor is it a factor in business dealings.

Always realize that it is your fault.

When one realizes and accepts these rules it is much easier going.

Poller

You hit the nail on the head!!! I just read the rules of engagement and my husband asked me if I wrote it!!

Mary

Poller...do I detect a change in your attitude over the last few months? I enjoy your posts and feel that you are one of the best contributors to this forum (not to minimize Mary's contributions).

Happens to about 50-75 % of the expats here when they actually try to do something but drinking and chasing women around.

Originally Posted by bicar

Poller...do I detect a change in your attitude over the last few months? I enjoy your posts and feel that you are one of the best contributors to this forum (not to minimize Mary's contributions).

I enjoy living in Panama. However, living here does come with challenges. It can make the best of us cynical at times. The "love affair" is over though. I am now dealing with the "nuts and bolts" part of living here. Or maybe I am becoming the "nut". I think the love affair lasts about 1 year. Would I consider leaving? No, I am not ready. My Rules of Engagement list is optional by the way. Have fun. Poller

I agree with Ed !!

The first year...noooo problem, everything was fine. Poller couldn't use a better analogy...it's like a new "love affair" and you see all issues as minor "irritants".

The way I feel now is as long as I stay away from government offices, I'm alright (including the Canadian embassy...but that's another topic and Panama has nothing to do with it). The problem is there's always a document to renew (Plates, Driver's license every 6 months, stupid Carnet every 6 months, work permit every year, Visa Multi Entrada/Salida to come back on the same migratory status and avoid the fine, etc...).

Also, after 7 months Immigration told me they "lost" documents so my application is still pending (who do you think is the dumbass who had to reproduce copy and get them notarized $$...again + the timbres fiscales..etc)

Do I want to leave now....humm not yet (I actually enjoy the time between all these document renewals) but I won't spend the rest of my life here for sure...I don't want to die of a heart attack at 35 !!

One thing for sure, the honeymoon is definitely over!!

When we first applied for our pensionado visa they "lost" my paperwork but had my husbands. They told our lawyer that I had to start the process all over again - even though I was a "dependent" under my husband's application. Our lawyer raised holy hell with them and told them to find it - 3 months later the found my paperwork and told her we had to start from scratch. Once again she raised holy hell and told them to approve it and date it back to when we first applied. They did!! By the way my legal last name is different then my husbands and that is what confused them (LOL).

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Sounds like a good reason to live in the grey zone. The more I hear about the bureaucratic nightmare around getting anything legitimate done in Panama - the less I want to do it.

Time to find a Panamanian wife I guess....!

Same process as per above so you are out of luck on that one.

Originally Posted by snohobo

Time to find a Panamanian wife I guess....!

Panama is like any other place. It has 2 baskets. In one is good points and in the other is bad points. Weigh your baskets.
I do not welcome Panama cheer leaders that do not use this approach. They are salesman.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

Same process as per above so you are out of luck on that one.

I'm outta here!

Originally Posted by snohobo

Sounds like a good reason to live in the grey zone. The more I hear about the bureaucratic nightmare around getting anything legitimate done in Panama - the less I want to do it.

Time to find a Panamanian wife I guess....!

Actually a Panamanian wife is the way to go, if you can find a good one (yes they are here but not at Habano's). Sure you can still run into issues with getting your immigration status hung up in "the process" BUT once you go through the initial process, get your temporary residency, etc, life gets a lot easier.

I know there are good women here - it's clear. It's unfair to make sweeping generalizations about any population or culture. Those people we generalize can do the same to us. I sure don't want to be labeled a loud, obnoxious, short wearing, sandal & sock matching, no spanish speaking gringo.

I've met a few good women here - I've met a few bad ones too!

Originally Posted by snohobo

Short wearing, sandal & sock matching, no spanish speaking gringo.

That's kinda me but without the socks in my sandals (and you will pickup the Spanish).

Hablo bas tante. No me pongo shorts, no me pongo sandalias y soy de Canada. The only thing left is obnoxious and I've been known to be that for sure!

Originally Posted by snohobo

Hablo bas tante. No me pongo shorts, no me pongo sandalias y soy de Canada. The only thing left is obnoxious and I've been known to be that for sure!

That just mean's you will fit in with the rest of the expat group.

I'm equal opportunity - I split my time evenly between expat and local groups. I like the idea of getting to connect with this culture - and speaking spanish is the only way do achieve this.

The OP sounds like it is for Thailand, where I am now .

That is not entirely correct. When a Panamanian is in traffic driving his car every milli-second is a matter of life and death. They would not mind leaving a trail of dead behind them in traffic to gain a bit. On the other hand if the Panamanian spots a friend on the side walk he can stop the car horizontally, proceed with a casual discussion and block two lanes for up to 1 hour if needed.

Originally Posted by Pollerkeeper

Time means nothing here.

Thats a great point Ed. The other day I was fueling up my little scooter out here in Las Tablas. The car behind me laid on the horn for 3-4 seconds to give me a hint that I needed to finish up and get out of the way quickly. So, depending on the situation, time could be extremely valuable here. But, I would say that would be an exception, not a rule.