Thread: Home improvements. Lessons learned.

I live in Las Tablas and am doing improvements on a house I purchased not long ago. It is a learning experience to say the least. My wife has been helping me as much as possible since she speaks Spanish. But, here are some of the lessons I have learned:

Panamanians do not pay attention to detail ever. Getting paid is important. Once a Panamanian is paid than any unfinished work will not be completed. Before he gets paid, work will be done, but never will he pay attention to detail. A Panamanian must be observed at all times while he is working. When you quit looking he will quit working. But, if you are not experienced you will not know if he is milking the job or not. Panamanians are sloppy workers. They don't ever clean up after themselves. Panamanians will not have their own tools(maybe a machete). Panamanians will never say no. Panamanians are never on time. Work will never be done when they say they will do it. It is also OK for them to quote a price and then not finish the job and then ask for more money. If you refuse then they will just get angry with you, call you names and then they will leave. They will then come back in their cars, driving by to see if work has resumed. Customer satisfaction is not important. Repeat business is not important. Having a good reputation is not important. Getting paid a lot of money for doing a little work is the goal. Everything is cheap to a Panamanian. Including what he charges you for a job. If you are not satisfied with the work, the response will be, well, you should have paid me more. Panamanians are always right also and will never admit to making a mistake, ever.

When you are dealing with a Panamanian contractor you cannot take anything for granted or assume anything. That will always bite you in the butte. But, Murphy's law will find a way into the mix anyway just to frustrate you and drive you to the brink of insanity.

The work will be finished in the next few weeks I am sure. I never want to go thru this ever again.

Originally Posted by Pollerkeeper

I live in Las Tablas and am doing improvements on a house I purchased not long ago. It is a learning experience to say the least. My wife has been helping me as much as possible since she speaks Spanish. But, here are some of the lessons I have learned:

Panamanians do not pay attention to detail ever. Getting paid is important. Once a Panamanian is paid than any unfinished work will not be completed. Before he gets paid, work will be done, but never will he pay attention to detail. A Panamanian must be observed at all times while he is working. When you quit looking he will quit working. But, if you are not experienced you will not know if he is milking the job or not. Panamanians are sloppy workers. They don't ever clean up after themselves. Panamanians will not have their own tools(maybe a machete). Panamanians will never say no. Panamanians are never on time. Work will never be done when they say they will do it. It is also OK for them to quote a price and then not finish the job and then ask for more money. If you refuse then they will just get angry with you, call you names and then they will leave. They will then come back in their cars, driving by to see if work has resumed. Customer satisfaction is not important. Repeat business is not important. Having a good reputation is not important. Getting paid a lot of money for doing a little work is the goal. Everything is cheap to a Panamanian. Including what he charges you for a job. If you are not satisfied with the work, the response will be, well, you should have paid me more. Panamanians are always right also and will never admit to making a mistake, ever.

When you are dealing with a Panamanian contractor you cannot take anything for granted or assume anything. That will always bite you in the butte. But, Murphy's law will find a way into the mix anyway just to frustrate you and drive you to the brink of insanity.

The work will be finished in the next few weeks I am sure. I never want to go thru this ever again.

Ditto.

Pollerkeeper, Thanks for taking the time to share your real life experiences with Panamanian workers. Without candid reporting from the boots on the ground people will not get an honest and accurate portrayal of life in Panama. Your post gives people ample warning and valuable information on how to avoid being "taken" by a Panama contractor.

I agree 100% (Of course there's exceptions but good luck finding them). This is why I try to only hire Colombians to do construction and repair work. They are almost the complete opposite in every regard.

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

I agree 100% (Of course there's exceptions but good luck finding them). This is why I try to only hire Colombians to do construction and repair work. They are almost the complete opposite in every regard.

wow thats funny, since most panamanians pretend columbians are pretty much the root of all evil :S thanks for the tip!

and if i was offered 1 guy from mexico or a bus load of panamanians there would be just one guy working for me , and good chances more work would be done at the end of the day

Ouch. Ok, let's be fair here. Good reliable Panamanian workers do exist. I've got a crew of them right now and they are rock solid. But I trained them and hold them to my high standards. The locals with the best attitudes will succeed here in Panama.

Originally Posted by Pollerkeeper

I live in Las Tablas and am doing improvements on a house I purchased not long ago. It is a learning experience to say the least. My wife has been helping me as much as possible since she speaks Spanish. But, here are some of the lessons I have learned:

Panamanians do not pay attention to detail ever. Getting paid is important. Once a Panamanian is paid than any unfinished work will not be completed. Before he gets paid, work will be done, but never will he pay attention to detail. A Panamanian must be observed at all times while he is working. When you quit looking he will quit working. But, if you are not experienced you will not know if he is milking the job or not. Panamanians are sloppy workers. They don't ever clean up after themselves. Panamanians will not have their own tools(maybe a machete). Panamanians will never say no. Panamanians are never on time. Work will never be done when they say they will do it. It is also OK for them to quote a price and then not finish the job and then ask for more money. If you refuse then they will just get angry with you, call you names and then they will leave. They will then come back in their cars, driving by to see if work has resumed. Customer satisfaction is not important. Repeat business is not important. Having a good reputation is not important. Getting paid a lot of money for doing a little work is the goal. Everything is cheap to a Panamanian. Including what he charges you for a job. If you are not satisfied with the work, the response will be, well, you should have paid me more. Panamanians are always right also and will never admit to making a mistake, ever.

When you are dealing with a Panamanian contractor you cannot take anything for granted or assume anything. That will always bite you in the butte. But, Murphy's law will find a way into the mix anyway just to frustrate you and drive you to the brink of insanity.

The work will be finished in the next few weeks I am sure. I never want to go thru this ever again.

Been there, done that........ I agree 100%.

It's consistent with what I have heard, including the point that the top 10% or so are pretty good if well managed. Never get ahead on payments.

I've been blessed to have met, hired and worked with amazing Colombians. They were all super intense, focused and hard working. Either I'm extremely lucky or it's cultural. They're very detailed oriented... they'll work 18 hours a day if necessary.

I think in general Colombia is more extreme culture (just look at their history). My past experiences with the women also validate that theory.

I have a new strategy for soliciting work from locals. I tell them the scope of the work - they over quote me and promise it done in 2 days.

I say - OK - I will pay you this amount if the work is done by day 2 - after that - I remove 10% of the fee for every day you are late.

Either it will be done on time, or late and for much cheaper.

But I would rather hire a Colombian.

Everyone wants to hire Colombians, it's hard to believe Panama used to be part of Colombia. You would think some of the good Colombian work ethic would remain.

I personally don't believe that Columbian's in general are better workers than Panamanians. If you go by that you are setting yourself up for getting screwed. My wife for example is Columbian and she prides herself on being a better worker and a better house wife or better at anything than a Panamanian. She has good intentions but she's full of it though and I try not to hurt her feelings by telling her that she is no better than anyone else. She pays no attention to detail in her business dealings and is concerned only with getting the cheapest price for services. Then she complains when the service is provided because she does not get what she believed she paid for. Well, if she explained what she wanted exactly then maybe she would get what she wanted. I could give specific examples but you can get what I am talking about. Panamanians don't care if you don't explain yourself and will just get started working with or without the necessary information. The finished product is a surprise, and most likely not what the customer wanted. When you complain to the company they will consider it your fault and you will pay for any changes made. When I try to explain to my wife the importance of paying attention to detail she looks at me like I am a retard.

Originally Posted by fleeted

Everyone wants to hire Colombians, it's hard to believe Panama used to be part of Colombia. You would think some of the good Colombian work ethic would remain.

yes it was , but many years ago , things and customs are lost over time . from what i have seen , they dont understand or care about repeat customers , if they get money today all is good , i know i will take flack for the next statement but they are alot like the indians in Canada , live for today , maybe that is why manana is so popular here .

Panamanians are more accustomed to being paid by the day. So when you ask for a fixed quote for a new roof, what they come up with is more of an estimate than a contract. Expecting more often leads to frustration.

You might be better off buying materials yourself and paying by the day with a nice bonus when the job is complete (otherwise they might stretch it out forever). Retain the right to schedule workers - if someone isn't working hard, then they get fewer or no hours.

That is very good advice. I fired the original crew working for me because of poor work production. If I notice good efforts being put into the work I don't have a problem paying more money to finish a job. Supervising effectively takes some knowledge and is a learning experience for most of us. I have to take part of the fault just because of my lack of Spanish skills as well.

I've heard that too - never skimp on paying for a good translator to be on site on a regular basis. Lots of nodding and smiling does not mean that there is agreement.