Thread: Personality of the Average Panamanian

I've heard from many expats that Panamanians:

• aren't very friendly. That Colombians are more friendly
• that they don't really cement relationships. I assume they meant with expats
• try to steal whatever they can from Gringos (I know this seems to be true of a lot of Latin countries. Just heard about Nicaragua)

I just want to know what others from this forum think/have experienced.

Thank you


Michelle

have you ever been to panama ? from your posts here and on all the other forums that you are posting on i would guess not . yet you are planning on moving here , without knowing squat about the country , people etc . you need to come visit or you will just end up being another disappointed expat in a short time bitching how bad it is .reading about a country is not like experiencing a country . and from the post above you already seemed to have formed a option on latin america .

Originally Posted by sensualspirit

I've heard from many expats that Panamanians:

• aren't very friendly. That Colombians are more friendly
• that they don't really cement relationships. I assume they meant with expats
• try to steal whatever they can from Gringos (I know this seems to be true of a lot of Latin countries. Just heard about Nicaragua)

I just want to know what others from this forum think/have experienced.

Thank you


Michelle

In my experience (six years living in Panama), the first two items you posted are false. The final item is partially true, with a caveat. It doesn't matter who you are as far as theft is concerned. The thiefs in Panama are equal opportunity thiefs and will gladly steal from any nationality (including Panamanians).

Panamanians are very friendly people.

Colombians have better work ethic, attitude and higher standards and speak proper Spanish.

Panamanians have no problems cementing relationships with expats. It is the other way around. Expats generally have no reason nor desire to get socially close to Panamanians. Most expats are here to exploit the benefits of Panama and not to immerse with the local people in any way. Expats are also more guarded and rightfully so. That is what creates the separation between the two groups. It's by choice and I don't see that ever changing.

Panamanians don't steal from gringos. They just like to take advantage of gringos. There is a difference. We perceive their behvior as ripping us off but they don't see it that way. They see it as using smart business tactics to milk the gringo. There is a cultural difference.

Panamanian men are very immature. They are overly sensitive and act like children at times. They cannot admit to ever being wrong or at fault. It's a machismo thing.

Overall Panamanians are good people. But they are culturally different than gringos. It's that difference that creates the separation and animosity between the groups.

Panamanians will steal your shit if you leave it outside. They will also steal from each other. My amiga's family has their washing machine sitting outside their back door and bring it inside every night or it won't be there in the morning even with them sleeping nearby. Of course not everyone will steal but a high enough percentage will so if you like your garden tools or anything else don't leave it out.

Hah, I know someone who rented their house to a niece and put huge locks + bars on their bedroom door to keep the niece out. So I agree - Panamanians do worry about Panamanian's stealing things - even relatives.

Originally Posted by fleeted

Panamanians will steal your shit if you leave it outside. They will also steal from each other. My amiga's family has their washing machine sitting outside their back door and bring it inside every night or it won't be there in the morning even with them sleeping nearby. Of course not everyone will steal but a high enough percentage will so if you like your garden tools or anything else don't leave it out.

It's not that bad. I've had way more stuff stolen from me in the States than Panama. All 3 cars I owned in the States were broken into. No problems so far in Panama. I lost my bikes, ladders, tools, etc. back in the States living in a gated $1M community. But in Panama I've left lots of stuff out including wheel barrels for weeks and no one took them, but I live out in the country side so that may make a difference. I personally think theft is worse in the States than Panama but that's just me.

The area you live in Panama does make a huge difference. I have lived in a typical interior neighborhood for almost 2 years and have never had a single thing stolen from my house. My neighbors all say hello to me and if I go down to the local watering hole a local is always be happy to buy me a beer.

I've been robbed blind several times already. They will take anything and everything, value or no. That's not really the worst part of the general culture though. Dishonesty is endemic to panamanian culture. They will never tell the truth when a lie will suffice, I don't know if that's a regional thing but it makes doing anything down here a real hassle. I can't figure it out yet, noone ever says no and will lie to you for weeks over something as simple as "hey do you know a mechanic?" , whilst trying to extort you for a few bucks at a time. They're great when it's all about having a beer and relaxing, generous even, but anything else? Don't turn your back, don't trust anyone. They will generally speaking be looking to scalp you in some way. The only exception is if they're part of the stinking rich and simply couldn't be bothered to make the effort. There's a HUGE economic divide between upper and lower here, so this behavior probably wont be changing any time soon.

I agree with the point about the huge economic divide. The rich are very flashy, but sadly not very refined or cultured.
This also relates to Ed's point in another thread about culture.

Originally Posted by Gwilson

I've been robbed blind several times already. They will take anything and everything, value or no. That's not really the worst part of the general culture though. Dishonesty is endemic to panamanian culture. They will never tell the truth when a lie will suffice, I don't know if that's a regional thing but it makes doing anything down here a real hassle. I can't figure it out yet, noone ever says no and will lie to you for weeks over something as simple as "hey do you know a mechanic?" , whilst trying to extort you for a few bucks at a time. They're great when it's all about having a beer and relaxing, generous even, but anything else? Don't turn your back, don't trust anyone. They will generally speaking be looking to scalp you in some way. The only exception is if they're part of the stinking rich and simply couldn't be bothered to make the effort. There's a HUGE economic divide between upper and lower here, so this behavior probably wont be changing any time soon.

I concur. Sad but true. Dishonesty and lack of ethics is rampant in Panama. It's a terrible disease here. One of the reasons I plan to leave because it's hard to live amongst people I don't respect. I do lots of business in Panama so I've seen it all from top to bottom of the food chain. It always revolves around money. No matter what they never admit blame... NEVER. And usually I end up paying more than once to complete a job. Having said that, it's still possible to make a lot of money in Panama if you pull the right strings, know the right people and target the right market, so I have no complaints in that department. But let the truth be known that there are no ethics standards in Panama.

I have to agree that when it comes to real business and real money watch out. Panamanians do love to change the price on things when they know they have somebody interested, especially when it is a foreign national.

Originally Posted by Liont

I agree with the point about the huge economic divide. The rich are very flashy, but sadly not very refined or cultured.
This also relates to Ed's point in another thread about culture.

To be honest, Panamanians are an easy target for criticism and therefore it's best not to even go there. I have found the local people to be very friendly on a social level and I like that. Strangers give you eye contact and say buenas dias when they pass you. They are also very helpful when you need it. They are more family oriented than in North America so you see whole families go out to eat rather than just couples. I like that. Overall I like Panamanians on a social level.

The part I'm not fond of is the way they conduct business. Also I've lived in Panama for many years and have not figured out what the "culture" is here. From my keen observation, it's worshipping beer and holidays off. Am I right? I have not discovered any real culture in Panama yet and I've been to many other countries and could feel the culture there, but somehow in Panama... nada. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy living in Panama for the most part but that's due to me and and not the country.

The average is maybe not such an interesting question, but I would say the average Panamanian has the cultural IQ of someone who just staggered out of a sheep orgy. As far as business and banking I feel like I am at the special olympics pushing retards around while they shakingly try to direct a hot dog (with excessive mustard) into their mouths, dropping it a few times in the process. You should be able to pull a 12 year old Japanese schoolgirl out of a Hello Kitty store (or kidnap Stevie Wonder) and have a fully trained replacement of the average worker here in a matter of 8 hours.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

The average is maybe not such an interesting question, but I would say the average Panamanian has the cultural IQ of someone who just staggered out of a sheep orgy. As far as business and banking I feel like I am at the special olympics pushing retards around while they shakingly try to direct a hot dog (with excessive mustard) into their mouths, dropping it a few times in the process. You should be able to pull a 12 year old Japanese schoolgirl out of a Hello Kitty store (or kidnap Stevie Wonder) and have a fully trained replacement of the average worker here in a matter of 8 hours.

Ed, just curious as to why you are still living in Panama? I've probably taken more beatings than you but I'm taking things in stride. Panama is really not a bad place to live if you are willing to lower your standards and expectations. Then it becomes a good place to hang out and live a simple life.

And to be fair to the locals, this whole gringo influx who all expect service with a smile is a new concept to most of the locals. We foreigners expect to be greeted with a warm welcome while they are just learning it. Things are getting better. A couple of new restaurants in town have exceptional service. It's all in the training.

I think a big part of perception is expectation.

Do you expect things to work perfectly? Do you expect things to be easy?

Having hopskotched around the Middle East for the last few years, the norm for me is that the system rarely (if ever) works as it's supposed to and even menial things are a pain to deal with. People can be incredibly lazy. Nothing is efficient. Nothing is orderly. And most people would rather push you off on someone else (who will then do the same) rather than take the time to actually help you.

Sound like a familiar complaint? I was actually speaking about Americans on military bases.

Out in town (Kuwait City, Doha, Manama), it is much the same.

When I lived in Italy, guess what? It was much the same.

I could be wrong, but I think the vast majority of people's frustration arises from the difference between the way things are and the way people expect they "should be". Change your expectation and you can greatly reduce your frustration.

I'm not saying it's always perfectly easy to let it go when things get tough, just pointing out that people are more alike than not and it isnt just a Panama problem.

If I can go there and be welcome to sit and enjoy a cold beer, relax, feel like I am safe, feel like I dont need to fear the govt trying to play Big Brother... then really, I'll deal with the rest. And I wont let it jade my perspective or make me bitter. What you focus on in this life becomes magnified. Are you focused on what's right or what's wrong???

Originally Posted by CerebralPrimate

I think a big part of perception is expectation.

Do you expect things to work perfectly? Do you expect things to be easy?

Having hopskotched around the Middle East for the last few years, the norm for me is that the system rarely (if ever) works as it's supposed to and even menial things are a pain to deal with. People can be incredibly lazy. Nothing is efficient. Nothing is orderly. And most people would rather push you off on someone else (who will then do the same) rather than take the time to actually help you.

Sound like a familiar complaint? I was actually speaking about Americans on military bases.

Out in town (Kuwait City, Doha, Manama), it is much the same.

When I lived in Italy, guess what? It was much the same.

I could be wrong, but I think the vast majority of people's frustration arises from the difference between the way things are and the way people expect they "should be". Change your expectation and you can greatly reduce your frustration.

I'm not saying it's always perfectly easy to let it go when things get tough, just pointing out that people are more alike than not and it isnt just a Panama problem.

If I can go there and be welcome to sit and enjoy a cold beer, relax, feel like I am safe, feel like I dont need to fear the govt trying to play Big Brother... then really, I'll deal with the rest. And I wont let it jade my perspective or make me bitter. What you focus on in this life becomes magnified. Are you focused on what's right or what's wrong???

There's nothing wrong with having standards. The cold beer trick works on the locals too. The Panamanian government subsidizes keeping people drunk and ignorant so they don't complain. In other CA countries beer is expensive so one rarely sees locals huddled around a table slamming down their daily earnings. Different culture. Certain personality types can really enjoy Panama while other types despise this place and leave. It all has to do with what you notice and focus on and what your standards are. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. It's whatever floats your boat.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Ed, just curious as to why you are still living in Panama?

Imagine me in a pair of pink boxers with an urgent lust to fulfill the demand directed by my internal bowel movements - I am right in front of the location of choice when a local "have all the time in world" slides right in front of me like I was the subject of a local charity event during the past week. Half a second later I feel my boxers are starting to sag, a few seconds more and I feel my asscrack and lower arms get noticable wet -- needless to say little specks of something starts to hit the lower back of my head and ears. So what can I do but to break down the doors of the first stall with shit fully puddled in the seat, extract the napkins from the purse of a local hooker and enjoy the rest of the evening.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

Imagine me in a pair of pink boxers with an urgent lust to fulfill the demand directed by my internal bowel movements - I am right in front of the location of choice when a local "have all the time in world" slides right in front of me like I was the subject of a local charity event during the past week. Half a second later I feel my boxers are starting to sag, a few seconds more and I feel my asscrack and lower arms get noticable wet -- needless to say little specks of something starts to hit the lower back of my head and ears. So what can I do but to break down the doors of the first stall with shit fully puddled in the seat, extract the napkins from the purse of a local hooker and enjoy the rest of the evening.

Me thinks you had tee many too martinis tonight...

Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Ed, just curious as to why you are still living in Panama?

Could you answer this question that Felicity asked, Ed?

Felicity ,you post above reminds me of that old SNL skit. "Lowered Expectations"

I'm off to the Nissan dealership now. They've had my vehicle 3 days for a simple inspection/service. It was done 2 days ago and they wanted to "check" some things that I had written down. I said the clutch was stiff and I had a power steering leak. Now I have the 80k inspection on paper here...THEY CHECK THOSE THINGS! I was just making sure they didn't pull a panamania on me and 'forget' ...so 2 more days to actually do a FRACTION of whats on the list? jebus. You need a complete absence of any expectations here or you will have a hard time. Then when something goes right you're pleasantly surprised...until it goes wrong soon after.

People need to realize that the average Panamanian your dealing with is not operating at the same level as you. This is not a knock on them it is just a fact. Astute business people like Ed, Felicity, Matt and many others of you are used to dealing with people who are better educated. You also have life experiences and a world view and understanding the average panamanian will never have. I think allot of expats hang with only a select group of locals is because they don't share common experiences, or education. That does not mean Panamanians are bad but be honest how many of you were hanging out with the folks from the trailer park back in the States? It is just a fact people with common interests, education, wealth and culture tend to migrate towards one another.

Absolutely dead on Fleeted! As my wife and I say; "you only know what you know" so why do we expect something that will never happen and then complain about it. As in most of Latin America (and alot of other places in the world) the people are educated "inside the box" so you really can't expect out of the box thinking from them.

There's some great people here in Panama. The problem is -- it takes 10X more time, energy and effort to find them. But that doesn't stop me. I just search for superstars and either become friends with them, hire them or work with them.

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

There's some great people here in Panama. The problem is -- it takes 10X more time, energy and effort to find them. But that doesn't stop me. I just search for superstars and either become friends with them, hire them or work with them.

That is the type of spirit and attitude that breeds success.

Originally Posted by fleeted

People need to realize that the average Panamanian your dealing with is not operating at the same level as you. This is not a knock on them it is just a fact. Astute business people like Ed, Felicity, Matt and many others of you are used to dealing with people who are better educated. You also have life experiences and a world view and understanding the average panamanian will never have. I think allot of expats hang with only a select group of locals is because they don't share common experiences, or education. That does not mean Panamanians are bad but be honest how many of you were hanging out with the folks from the trailer park back in the States? It is just a fact people with common interests, education, wealth and culture tend to migrate towards one another.

Um, fleeted, I used to live in a trailer park... sheeeshh

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

There's some great people here in Panama. The problem is -- it takes 10X more time, energy and effort to find them. But that doesn't stop me. I just search for superstars and either become friends with them, hire them or work with them.

Yep. Done that already. Just be careful because superstars may have gotten to that level doing shady things. Those architects and surveyors who ripped me off drive cars much nicer than mine. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Um, fleeted, I used to live in a trailer park... sheeeshh

Never lived in a trailer park but I did live in a mobile for a while in college. Are you telling us you have the same DNA as Joe Dirt? LOL.

The "average" Panamanian is a hard working, throughly underpaid, honest citizen, trying to squeak out a living. Just like every other "average" citizen in the world. Do any of you have contact with "average" Panamanians? The custodian at my work takes three busses every morning to get to work and is one of the nicest humans you will ever meet. My girlfriend works her ass off for 600 bucks a month, then goes to night school every night for 5 hours. The people that post on this site, myself included, are some of the luckiest people in the world and we treat this country like its our own little playground and how dare these Panamanians get in the way of our fun. Anyone in any country can complain about money; are you telling me a contractor in the states has never ripped off someone? Or a taxi driver has never charged someone too much? Or a lawyer has not followed through on a promise?

STOP COMPLAINING!!!

Originally Posted by BillUMD

The "average" Panamanian is a hard working, throughly underpaid, honest citizen, trying to squeak out a living. Just like every other "average" citizen in the world. Do any of you have contact with "average" Panamanians? The custodian at my work takes three busses every morning to get to work and is one of the nicest humans you will ever meet. My girlfriend works her ass off for 600 bucks a month, then goes to night school every night for 5 hours. The people that post on this site, myself included, are some of the luckiest people in the world and we treat this country like its our own little playground and how dare these Panamanians get in the way of our fun. Anyone in any country can complain about money; are you telling me a contractor in the states has never ripped off someone? Or a taxi driver has never charged someone too much? Or a lawyer has not followed through on a promise?

STOP COMPLAINING!!!

Haha... I feel you! My girlfriend was working at the QQBear in Metro Mall before they closed there doors. She was making $600 a month. I told her to forget about that stinking job. Shortly after wards we went down to enroll her at Florida University for english courses. She has only done 2 levels so far and I am very proud. She is talking enligsh like a regular person and it sounds very sexy.... jjejejjejeje