Thread: Is PC the only real choice?

Panama is still a strong contender for me in terms of where to relocate to, albeit I am off to Malaysia on 19 April to check that out. Malaysia ticks many boxes for me but there are also a few reservations (e.g. to what extent will the growing Muslim influence affect life for non Muslims, rising property prices, area stability). Panama is in the same boat really, lots going for it from what I can see but a few reservations I have also.

Amongst the attractions of Malaysia for me are:

• The 'buzz' of Asian cities/towns (with good and varied nightlife, particularly in Kuala Lumpur and Georgetown etc)
• Variety of food and restaurants
• Good beaches
• Very cheap cost of living
• Reasonable property prices despite recent rises
• Excellent retirement visa programme
• Access to all manner of things to do
• Good climate
• English widely spoken
• Diversity of community (Malay, Chinese, Indian and Western expats)

One of the concerns I have about Panama is that for now at least, I don't won't to live in any kind of rural isolation or some shanty town outback with little going on. I live in a blissful rural idyll now and for the immediate future at least I'd like to near a good variety of things to do (ranging from gyms, restaurants, beaches, bars, even the odd club for those party moments). I don't want t live miles from anywhere and have to travel too far and certainly not a 1 hour drive away. I would also like a nice, modern, relatively low maintenance property at a good price (not sure yet whether to go condo or landed property route).

From what I can see Panama City would likely meet all of those demands but I'm not entirely sure Panama City wouldn't be too much. Hard to strike a balance really. I'll check out Panama City at some stage and who knows, it might end up ticking all the boxes. But what about other places? Are there any of note? Las Tablas has crossed my mind (for several reasons) but I'm not sure it would tick the majority of those boxes.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Originally Posted by Templar

From what I can see Panama City would likely meet all of those demands but I'm not entirely sure Panama City wouldn't be too much. Hard to strike a balance really. I'll check out Panama City at some stage and who knows, it might end up ticking all the boxes. But what about other places? Are there any of note? Las Tablas has crossed my mind (for several reasons) but I'm not sure it would tick the majority of those boxes.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I have no direct knowledge of Malaysia, but a close friend that extensive business interests throughout eastern Asia dislikes the country a lot so I'm a bit surprised that is stacks up close to Panama -again, based on hearsay.

From what you're saying is important (close proximity to everything) and from what others have said in this forum, I think you're by default talking about a Panama City condo. You'll need to leave the city for a beach day, but there's plenty of options in all directions for that.

Any idea of the kind of prices for a PC condo, and indeed are there parts of PC that are more pleasant/quiet to live than others?

Malaysia has a lot going for it from my perspective but it is a matter of personal choice clearly. I will be much wiser after my trip!!

You may want to look at David?

Originally Posted by Templar

Any idea of the kind of prices for a PC condo, and indeed are there parts of PC that are more pleasant/quiet to live than others?

Malaysia has a lot going for it from my perspective but it is a matter of personal choice clearly. I will be much wiser after my trip!!

It will be great to hear your impressions of Malaysia upon your return. I personally gave some consideration to Thailand at one time - based on what I read and some good reviews from Americans living there - but felt it wasn't right for me. The language and distance were the two biggest negatives for me.

I would not be the best source for condo prices and information, but personally believe the El Congrejo, Obarrio and Bella Vista areas of the city present decent priced options with many shops and restaurants nearby.

I agree to get what you are looking for PC is your best bet. David has a mall and a few night clubs and casinos but to me it did not have the same energy as Panama city. It might be an illusion but David seemed hotter to me than PC as there was not much of a breeze. The Muslim threat mentioned above I don't percieve as palpable in Panama. I did see a few at Riba Smith and the mall.

I will admit that David has nowhere near the pulse of Panama City but on the plus side you do have a lot of shopping, restaurants, and easy access to many other places if somebody is wanting adventure. I see many expats that wind up sitting in the town they moved to and rarely ever getting out and about.

Originally Posted by BalaBeacher

It will be great to hear your impressions of Malaysia upon your return. I personally gave some consideration to Thailand at one time - based on what I read and some good reviews from Americans living there - but felt it wasn't right for me. The language and distance were the two biggest negatives for me.

I would not be the best source for condo prices and information, but personally believe the El Congrejo, Obarrio and Bella Vista areas of the city present decent priced options with many shops and restaurants nearby.

I've started a blog to diaries my explorations. It will be updated likely daily when I'm there: Pick of Penang

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check out David also. In fairness one of the reasons I opted for Malaysia as the first trip is being able to get an apartment rental there for about £360 for three weeks. Coupled with the flight it makes for a reasonably priced trip!! Especially if it ticks all the boxes. Even if it does I'd still likely need to check out Panama.

Originally Posted by Templar

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check out David also. In fairness one of the reasons I opted for Malaysia as the first trip is being able to get an apartment rental there for about £360 for three weeks. Coupled with the flight it makes for a reasonably priced trip!! Especially if it ticks all the boxes. Even if it does I'd still likely need to check out Panama.

That's a great bargain and you would be hard pressed to find accommodations in Panama City for that price. Please keep us informed of your experiences in Malaysia. Have a safe and fun trip!

Originally Posted by MRWOOHOO

I will admit that David has nowhere near the pulse of Panama City but on the plus side you do have a lot of shopping, restaurants, and easy access to many other places if somebody is wanting adventure. I see many expats that wind up sitting in the town they moved to and rarely ever getting out and about.

Those are good points! David is in a good location to beaches and the cool mountains of Volcan and Boquete. It is also close to Costa Rica. Personally it reminded me of big cow town or trucking junction. That is probably due to agriculture being so prevalent in the region. Another plus is David has decent healthcare.

David is not a particularly attractive town, the new park is a nice addition, and there are upscale neighborhoods. Amenities, bus terminal, affordable prices, and location is what makes David special.

^Expanding air terminal as well.

True

Part of the deal for me I have to say is that I would like the area I live to be/look appealing. Sounds like that may rule David out??

Originally Posted by Templar

Part of the deal for me I have to say is that I would like the area I live to be/look appealing. Sounds like that may rule David out??

well in my mind if you feel that way, panama city would also be ruled out , yes there is some nice neighbourhoods in the city but what i see is a big dump , garbage thrown everywhere , bad roads and worse sidewalks , generally it looks great from about 30 ft and up , nice tall buildings etc , looks like any big city in the would , from 30 ft to ground level is another story ,, tons of overhead power lines , garbage they cant seem to get collected , broken up roads and walks , traffic prolbems that dont seem to be getting much better even with some of the new roads they are doing , . so personally i think the city is just butt ugly , others like it , so best to just get on the plane and come spend a few months and check it out for yourself ., best of luck on wherever you choose

I am originally from South East Asia, and I have relatives in Malaysia (Malacca, Johore, Ipoh, Kuantan...). So I am quite familiar with the region.
Malaysia is a good place to retire. It is relatively affordable.

Govt and politics wise, it is relatively stable. People go about their own business, I don't hear much of protests and stuff. If you choose a city like KL, Penang or Malacca, there is a bigger mix of Chinese/other people, so that should address your concern of too much Muslim influence.

It is part of the Commonwealth (ex British colony), so English is widely spoken. So communication wise, it is much better compared to here in PC (if you don't speak Spanish).
If you want nice beaches, there are the nice beaches east coast of Malaysia - Club Med in Kuantan, snorkelling in Tioman (2 hrs from Malacca), not forgetting up North on Trengganu.

If you want cool mountains, there is Cameron Highlands (tea), Genting (gambling ) and others.
Malaysia is (personally speaking) more advanced than Panama as a whole. Oustide capitol KL, there are many liveable cities by modern standards. I have not been outside PC itself, but from what I hear, outside and inside PC is like a different world altogether.

PC is indeed an ulgy sight at ground level - garbage and potholes. KL is not pretty, but I don't recall KL being this ugly.

Not forgetting the food. Personally, I feel that the variety of food in Malaysia is simply amazing.
And if you are in need of some expensive fineries, you can always take the North South highway to Singapore, where you can get just about everything. Or a short flight to beautiful Thailand.

I hope I don't sound like an advertisment, I am not advertising for Malaysia! But it is very true that only after spending some time doing real stuff (not touristy stuff) that you know more about the place. This is what I am doing now in PC. Just consider very carefully, what you want, as well as the overall living cost.

Hope you gleam more in your trip in April. All the best!

Originally Posted by Templar

Panama is still a strong contender for me in terms of where to relocate to, albeit I am off to Malaysia on 19 April to check that out. Malaysia ticks many boxes for me but there are also a few reservations (e.g. to what extent will the growing Muslim influence affect life for non Muslims, rising property prices, area stability). Panama is in the same boat really, lots going for it from what I can see but a few reservations I have also.

Amongst the attractions of Malaysia for me are:

• The 'buzz' of Asian cities/towns (with good and varied nightlife, particularly in Kuala Lumpur and Georgetown etc)
• Variety of food and restaurants
• Good beaches
• Very cheap cost of living
• Reasonable property prices despite recent rises
• Excellent retirement visa programme
• Access to all manner of things to do
• Good climate
• English widely spoken
• Diversity of community (Malay, Chinese, Indian and Western expats)

One of the concerns I have about Panama is that for now at least, I don't won't to live in any kind of rural isolation or some shanty town outback with little going on. I live in a blissful rural idyll now and for the immediate future at least I'd like to near a good variety of things to do (ranging from gyms, restaurants, beaches, bars, even the odd club for those party moments). I don't want t live miles from anywhere and have to travel too far and certainly not a 1 hour drive away. I would also like a nice, modern, relatively low maintenance property at a good price (not sure yet whether to go condo or landed property route).

From what I can see Panama City would likely meet all of those demands but I'm not entirely sure Panama City wouldn't be too much. Hard to strike a balance really. I'll check out Panama City at some stage and who knows, it might end up ticking all the boxes. But what about other places? Are there any of note? Las Tablas has crossed my mind (for several reasons) but I'm not sure it would tick the majority of those boxes.

Any thoughts appreciated.

You really need to visit Panama City and judge for yourself. It's purely a subjective thing.

I personally could never live in PC for many reasons. Just the traffic alone to get anywhere and the metered taxis while sitting in gridlock would drive me bonkers. Let alone the constant honking, pollution, heat and dirtiness and no real beaches nearby. You are also dependent on terrible infrastructure. To be frank either you will love it, tolerate it, or absolutely hate PC. For me it's the latter and I dread having to go to there.

I live in a beach town about 1 hour outside PC. The food and service suck out here to be frank. The standards are so low. When gringos open up restaurants they focus too much on the money aspect and charge US prices while the quality is just mediocre. When Panamanians open up restaurants they don't focus enough on quality, consistency and service. If they serve you a bad meal they expect you to pay unless you refuse to. Stuff like that makes living in these parts unacceptable if you are a foodie and dining fanatic like me. That's one reason I'm on my way out.

Be wary there are lots of shady gringos doing all sorts of illicit activities here in Panama. Many gringos come here and think Panama is lawless so they can get away with all sorts of things such as snorting you know what and driving drunk without getting caught. Be careful with whom you associate with and it's best to keep to yourself.

I've never been to Malaysia but I will guess that it is worlds different than Panama. In fact I'd like to visit there someday. You have a great blog and I will keep it bookmarked. Thanks for introducing me to Malaysia.

Good luck on your search.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

well in my mind if you feel that way, panama city would also be ruled out , yes there is some nice neighbourhoods in the city but what i see is a big dump , garbage thrown everywhere , bad roads and worse sidewalks , generally it looks great from about 30 ft and up , nice tall buildings etc , looks like any big city in the would , from 30 ft to ground level is another story ,, tons of overhead power lines , garbage they cant seem to get collected , broken up roads and walks , traffic prolbems that dont seem to be getting much better even with some of the new roads they are doing , . so personally i think the city is just butt ugly , others like it , so best to just get on the plane and come spend a few months and check it out for yourself ., best of luck on wherever you choose

The sidewalks are dangerous in PC with many man hole covers and cleanouts missing. Just walking along and a big hole you could break a hip in is there and everyone walking around it like it is normal. Months later no change still dangerous hole with no cover. Some are small square holes maybe 12"x12" that are hard to see.

Originally Posted by Felicity

You really need to visit Panama City and judge for yourself. It's purely a subjective thing.

I personally could never live in PC for many reasons. Just the traffic alone to get anywhere and the metered taxis while sitting in gridlock would drive me bonkers. Let alone the constant honking, pollution, heat and dirtiness and no real beaches nearby. You are also dependent on terrible infrastructure. To be frank either you will love it, tolerate it, or absolutely hate PC. For me it's the latter and I dread having to go to there.

I live in a beach town about 1 hour outside PC. The food and service suck out here to be frank. The standards are so low. When gringos open up restaurants they focus too much on the money aspect and charge US prices while the quality is just mediocre. When Panamanians open up restaurants they don't focus enough on quality, consistency and service. If they serve you a bad meal they expect you to pay unless you refuse to. Stuff like that makes living in these parts unacceptable if you are a foodie and dining fanatic like me. That's one reason I'm on my way out.

Be wary there are lots of shady gringos doing all sorts of illicit activities here in Panama. Many gringos come here and think Panama is lawless so they can get away with all sorts of things such as snorting you know what and driving drunk without getting caught. Be careful with whom you associate with and it's best to keep to yourself.

As you say, what does not bother one person can tolerate annoy the heck out of someone else - neither being wrong. What led you to move/buy in Panama? Certainly Panama City is what it is - not easy to hide the blemishes. As far as restaurant - too much fried fish is one initial impression; would like to see more baked fish available (could be I go to the same places too!). But, I reached these impressions without moving there. I'm not questioning your genuiness at all - just trying to understand what you imagined or hoped for turned into something you hate. Regarding the "be careful with whom you associate" comment, I'm "older" and only into cigars and beer as far as vices go and believe I have a good radar for people. Other than irresponsible drunks and perhaps annoying multi-level marketers, what's been your experience? I don't mean googy, socially retarded people, I'm referring to dangerous people. Thanks.

Thanks Liont and Felicity for two brilliant posts.

@ Liont: You have largely confirmed what I suspected about Malaysia. Nice to hear about the contrast in the cities in Panama and Malaysia. In fairness I have no problem with Muslim influence, its radicalism that's problematic. So long as it doesn't go that way I have no problem. Good to hear about the other areas and beaches etc too. I seem to recall that there were some problems in the East and it was perhaps one of the riskier places to go, though that may well not be a problem these days. This was several years ago. It's the variety in Malaysia, the culture, buzz, places to visit and of course the food that appeals. I would be very interested in how you find Panama by comparison.

@Felicity: What can I say. It does confirm some of the things I was reading etc too. I am a mad passionate foodie (doing a chef's diploma at the moment, just as a hobby, but have cooked ever since I was a teenager) and the issues around food quality and service bother me. Some of the other activities are also a concern. Thanks for the comments on the blog. It will get very active after 19 April LOL!!!

Templar, if you are a foodie, you will be very delighted in Malaysia/Singapore region. The cross influences - Chinese, Malay, Indian, western cusines produces the most exciting food! Street food is plentiful and of high quality, food courts have what other countries offer as restaurant grade food. OMG, I am drooling... You will get spoilt, and will have very high expectations of food after you lived in the region for a while.
In those regions, you don't need to be rich to be a foodie. Everyone is a foodie! Food culture is just part of the culture, a way of life for them.

In regards to food I have to agree, most of the food in the interior is nothing to write home about. Ask yourself, when was the last time you have seen a Panamanian restaurant outside of Panama? The answer is never, same goes for Costa Rica. Rice, beans, and fried "whatever" is not that special. Panama city has a good variety of international cuisine. I would love to check out the food in S.E. Asia.

One thing I'm really looking forward to (the food). The blog will get updated daily when I'm there with news about the districts, developments, restaurants, food, nightlife and anything else that seems noteworthy.

If I ever leave Panama it will be to go find some good food.....

Originally Posted by BalaBeacher

As you say, what does not bother one person can tolerate annoy the heck out of someone else - neither being wrong. What led you to move/buy in Panama? Certainly Panama City is what it is - not easy to hide the blemishes. As far as restaurant - too much fried fish is one initial impression; would like to see more baked fish available (could be I go to the same places too!). But, I reached these impressions without moving there. I'm not questioning your genuiness at all - just trying to understand what you imagined or hoped for turned into something you hate. Regarding the "be careful with whom you associate" comment, I'm "older" and only into cigars and beer as far as vices go and believe I have a good radar for people. Other than irresponsible drunks and perhaps annoying multi-level marketers, what's been your experience? I don't mean googy, socially retarded people, I'm referring to dangerous people. Thanks.

I am in Panama for business and to make money. Isn't everyone? LOL. No, Panama is not a bad place to retire. It's ok, not great, but just ok. Panama is way over hyped and misrepresented. There are a lot of gotchas that no one will tell you about until it's too late.

Beach towns tend to attract shady people in general. Not necessarily murderers or anything like that, but just people who might rip you off or do petty things against you like spread nasty rumors or maybe harm your pets. There are many drug abusers and alcoholics here in my area and they tend to be the rich folks. You know who you are! I question if they are really happy living in Panama if they need to resort to doing hard drugs. But out of that mix you will find normal upstanding gringos so it's not all that bad. Just a diverse group to consider. It seems Panama attracts mostly older couples. Not many young gringos here.

I chose Panama because I did not bother to research other places. I made the mistake of not considering places that were not promoted heavily assuming they were bad or too dangerous to consider. Big mistake. In fact I found that the opposite is true. Places less promoted tend to be more authentic and offer a richer and more cultural experience. Lesson learned.

I love chicken (muslo) beans and rice, so the food is great in the interior for me. The lack of quality spices is a big deal though, what they have is old and useless. Apparently Super Baru in Chiriqui has the good stuff, haven't checked yet. I'm heading back to David in a couple days, much prefer it over Panama City. It's busy enough, plenty of 24hr options but more laid back. I'm actually a little puzzled about the large number of huge stores there to service a small population(120K). The food options are fantastic too, Popeyes for the best pizza in the country($4-6 for a nice medium with a bunch of toppings) or the Garden Chinese restaurant, lebanese place too. That's just one street I'm thinking of in San Mateo. For local fair the market has a food court, huge meals for 2.50. It's also cheaper than the city by a wide margin.

Super Baru is a great store.

I think we all have to remember that we are a diverse group here. The only similarity among us is that we are either in Panama or looking at Panama. Some are here voluntarily, some were "assigned", some are dragged here. So we cannot assume that all came merrily and are happy. I was a member of another foum before I discovered here. It is so full of "advertisements" there that it is unreal. So I jumped ship, and never looked back since. I think it is essential to welcome all comments, pro-Panama, as well as the in your face, not so pro-Panama ones. Just keeping it real.

Originally Posted by Felicity

I am in Panama for business and to make money. Isn't everyone? LOL. No, Panama is not a bad place to retire. It's ok, not great, but just ok. Panama is way over hyped and misrepresented. There are a lot of gotchas that no one will tell you about until it's too late.

Beach towns tend to attract shady people in general. Not necessarily murderers or anything like that, but just people who might rip you off or do petty things against you like spread nasty rumors or maybe harm your pets. There are many drug abusers and alcoholics here in my area and they tend to be the rich folks. You know who you are! I question if they are really happy living in Panama if they need to resort to doing hard drugs. But out of that mix you will find normal upstanding gringos so it's not all that bad. Just a diverse group to consider. It seems Panama attracts mostly older couples. Not many young gringos here.

I chose Panama because I did not bother to research other places. I made the mistake of not considering places that were not promoted heavily assuming they were bad or too dangerous to consider. Big mistake. In fact I found that the opposite is true. Places less promoted tend to be more authentic and offer a richer and more cultural experience. Lesson learned.

ok lets also be fair . you have been unhappy about panama since you got suckered , you bought your place and then stated whining about the loud bar down the street , did you buy it off the net ? or were you in panama ? either way you did not do your homework .panama is not perfect , no country is , they all have there good and bad , same as the people in the country . i live in a beach town , for the last 3 1/2 years and have yet to meet the shady people you talk about ,never been ripped off , and never heard any nasty rumors about me or about anyone , as far a harming pets , myself and my dog go for walks around pedasi every second night , the local kids look forward to petting her and descovering that they need not be afaid of dogs as their parent have warned them about . , when i left canada i am sure there was drug abusers and alcoholics there also LOL ,some people are very happy in panama , like myself , but then again i was here 5 times checking out the country before i bought anything , and i knew i was moving back to 1950 north america , which i found very refreshing , it is nice to see kids playing in the parks or streets after dark , not seeing everything spray painted with gang chit , being able to buy lunch for a couple of bucks , even if it is chicken , rice and beans , that is a damn site better for you than a burger from rotton ronnies . . yes most gringos are older from say 50 and up , but most are retired , some younger ones that work , but i think for the most part it is a retirement country . you say you picked panama because you did not research other places , from the sound of all your negitive comments you have been posting for a long time you did not research panama either , so lets all be fair about our take on whatever country we chose . if i was as unhappy as you i would have left a long time ago , not just whine about it because to be honest when a peron has a negitive outlook , other people pick that up very fast and then things like your rumors and dog prolbems can start ,i truly hope you get out of panama for your own sake and have a happy life somewhere . do not take this as anything personal , i would tell anyone the same thing .