Thread: What is the minimum to really LIVE in Panama?

Some background:

I am a 55 year old single guy. I do not currently speak Spanish but expect to make it my primary language when (not if) I move to Central America.
Currently, if I was to move to Panama I would only have $700 USD a month (military retirement) since I would not be working down there. I do not expect this to change till I hit 62 (over 6 years from now) and could take reduced Social Security. That would add about $1000 USD month for $1700 USD total a month.
I am living with my parents and taking care of them till they pass away. Them both being 80'ish there is no telling when this could happen so I am trying to plan ahead.

I live in a Park Model manufactured home. It is 400 Square feet and while "adequate" for a single guy living alone I sure would not want to spend all the rest of my days like this.
However, having a second (completly empty) unit directly adjacent would give more than enough "living space" for someone like me.

1. Do they make Park Model or Manufactured Home units in Panama?
2. What are the restrictions on placement of these units?

A personal, fast Internet connection is pretty much my only "must have".

3. What kinds of Internet access (DSL, Cable) are avaliable in Panama?
4. How far from a town center can you reasonably expect to be and still have a reliable Internet connection avaliable to you?

A shared Wi-Fi connection such as at a hotel would just not cut it. 100% of my entertainment comes from the Internet (including TV and radio).

That's it for now. Every other question I have is based on the answers to the above questions.

Yes, you could live in the interior for 700 dollars per month. You would need some seed money to get started and you would need to live alone(don't take on a girl friend). You could start out by renting a room in someones house. Then find a small Panamanian style house to rent. Your life will be simple. Extremely simple. No manufactured homes in Panama that I know of.

I agree with pollerkeeper expect to have roommates or to live like a local on $700 a month. His advice about a girlfriend is valid as being a gringo she may be expecting more from you than the local guys can give her. When your SS kicks in your lifestyle will be better. I think that there will be many people with modest pensions who will be forced out of the U.S. as the cost of living rises. Living more frugally will become the new normal. I think you need more than $700 per month to get a visa so that means using a Passport and bugging out to Costa Rica for a few days every few months. This needs to calculated into your budget until your SS kicks in. There are thousands of people who do 90 day exit so it is not unusual, some people here could probably give you an idea of the cost. I grew up poor and It amazed me how my mom could stretch a dollar so I know living modestly it can be done. Welcome to the forum!!!!!

Also think you will be living as a local, but depending on where you're going to live (in the interior of the Panama) it doesnt have to be that simple. (lots of ) Panamanians in the interior live from a 500 dollar monthly income... It totaly depends on where you live, what you have to start with and where you spend it on.
I'm living with my boyfriends panamanian family and I see that his family members can get around with basic income paying a small house and take care of their kids.

It would be very interesting to understand what the individual "buckets" are in a $700 (or a $1,000 or whatever) budget if anyone is willing to provide. Then, folks could compare items and adjust their own based on actual or expected lifestyle in Panama. E.g., my beer budget might be $100 a month; others -0- LOL. But, seriously, what is included for transportation? Health care? Utilities? Etc.

Originally Posted by Annepannetje

Also think you will be living as a local, but depending on where you're going to live (in the interior of the Panama) it doesnt have to be that simple. (lots of ) Panamanians in the interior live from a 500 dollar monthly income... It totaly depends on where you live, what you have to start with and where you spend it on.
I'm living with my boyfriends panamanian family and I see that his family members can get around with basic income paying a small house and take care of their kids.

You are right many Panamanians live and work out of one home. My amiga's family has 7 people in a small two bedroom with 2 sets of bunk beds and a twin bed in one room. They have 3 adult that are working and contributing to the expenses. So a single guy living like a panamanian won't have any extra revenue coming in like a typical Panamanian family. $700 is a meager exisitence in Panama or anywhere.

Another good advantage is to EAT in the interior. Lots of cheap fruits, cheap rice, cheap beans and cheap chicken.

It is important for people on limited budgets to understand there is no social services for foriegners in Panama (Only the U.S. is that dumb). Health care is reasonable but needs to be purchased as there is no medicare or medicaid. The social safety nets taken for granted in America won't be available. There are advantages to living in the U.S. on a limited budget. Ralph as retired military you have an advantage of tricare. I think it maybe accepted in David and Panama City Hospitals.

Originally Posted by Pollerkeeper

Yes, you could live in the interior for 700 dollars per month. You would need some seed money to get started and you would need to live alone(don't take on a girl friend). You could start out by renting a room in someones house. Then find a small Panamanian style house to rent. Your life will be simple. Extremely simple. No manufactured homes in Panama that I know of.

Can you please clarify what you mean by a "Panamanian style house"? Are you talking about something like a small cement block style house, or is the phrase " Panamanian style house" a way of saying a small house that has fewer ammenities such as no hot water and no kitchen cabinets? Thanks for your reply...

Tricare is accepted but I don't have an extensive list of where. With all my searching I have found ONE post from a American Leagon guy that talked about it. He no longer does it so who knows now ...

It sounds like there is absolutely no reason for me to move before SS kicks in. I am getting food stamps and that covers most of my food. Would have to replace that out of pocket so there is a big dis-incentive right there.
I have to laugh at the people talking up meals for $12. That is my budget for two days and I have little difficulty working with it.
Of course, I NEVER go out to eat and often don't leave my trailer for days at a time (other than to check on the folks).
No car and no cash = no go anywhere. That's why a Internet connection is so important. All my entertainment comes to me for virtually no cost.

I (suffered) room mates for for way too long to want to do that again even to improve my situation. And it does not sound like even doing that would be better than what I have avaliable to me right now.
My Trailer is costing $310 a month and will be paid off in a couple years. Even if I could find something in Panama for that amount the cost would never to go away.

As far as female companionship... that's why I only get $700 from retirement. If the ex would do me the favor of croaking I would get the 2nd half of my retirement and be down there on the next flight out.
Dang the US for giving up Howard AFB. The more I think about it the more I see it as being one of the stupidest things the USA did. EVER!

I even resorted to looking at living in Nicaragua. Yeah, you can get a hut for $75 month but it's HOT all the time, water is unsafe, people get shot for the $10 in their pocket. To live in a decent place, yada yada, would cost you at least as much as being in the US or Panama. What's the point then? Well, cheap sex and even cheaper STD's.

Does anyone know of a live webcam that is pointed at a beach? At least I can throw it up on a monitor and dream...

You need a pension of at least $1,020 so you can show $1,000 coming in per month after banking fees. Also, expect to spend about $1,500 for the pensionado visa (including everything, such as apostille, FedEx and more).

Ralph,
I think you are wise to stay put given your situation. It is tough enough to get by with the social servicec in the U.S., when you add in the expense of a move your finances will be even more strained. There are plenty of people with money who bail on Panama after a year or two because of the cultural and language differences. When your social security kicks in you will have more options and freedom. Typical how the govt gives your ex wife half your paycheck and then turns around puts you on food stamps to make ends meet.

Originally Posted by Viviana

Can you please clarify what you mean by a "Panamanian style house"? Are you talking about something like a small cement block style house, or is the phrase " Panamanian style house" a way of saying a small house that has fewer ammenities such as no hot water and no kitchen cabinets? Thanks for your reply...

both of the above viviana

Originally Posted by RalphR

Tricare is accepted but I don't have an extensive list of where. With all my searching I have found ONE post from a American Leagon guy that talked about it. He no longer does it so who knows now ...

I have heard the hospital in Paitilla has an office that deals with TriCare on a daily basis. Let me check my emails at home and I will get back with you on the details.

As far as female companionship... that's why I only get $700 from retirement. If the ex would do me the favor of croaking I would get the 2nd half of my retirement and be down there on the next flight out.

I feel your pain, although my ex doesn’t get half of my USAF retirement. I was able to negotiate a flat rate payment that is way less than half (thank God). Fortunately (or unfortunately) I receive a decent VA disability payment every month. That helps put us over the top every month and will certainly come in handy after we make the move back to Panama.

Dang the US for giving up Howard AFB. The more I think about it the more I see it as being one of the stupidest things the USA did. EVER!

I was stationed at Howard AFB twice for a total of six years and I left in Sep 1999, just before the turnover. Jimmy Carter gave that one away! If we still had a military presence/base in Panama, we would have already moved back. As it is, we just need to pay off a few bills and then we are headed back!

Dang the US for giving up Howard AFB. The more I think about it the more I see it as being one of the stupidest things the USA did. EVER!

ok , i just have to ask , why do you think it is so stupid ? first off i am not from the states , second i have read that the US has 700 bases worldwide , and we all know that they are in many countries where the people do not like them , , what business do they have in panama ? the states is 15 trillion in debt , that is $1 per second for the next 440,000 years , there is 44 million people on food stamps and god knows how many sucking the goverment tit with welfare etc , so i would think the states has plenty to spend there money on besides bases in other countries , but that just my thought .

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

Dang the US for giving up Howard AFB. The more I think about it the more I see it as being one of the stupidest things the USA did. EVER!

ok , i just have to ask , why do you think it is so stupid ? first off i am not from the states , second i have read that the US has 700 bases worldwide , and we all know that they are in many countries where the people do not like them , , what business do they have in panama ? the states is 15 trillion in debt , that is $1 per second for the next 440,000 years , there is 44 million people on food stamps and god knows how many sucking the goverment tit with welfare etc , so i would think the states has plenty to spend there money on besides bases in other countries , but that just my thought .

I will take your questions a little out of order. The debit is 1.5 trillion, you are off by a factor of 10.
I am one of the people on Food Stamps. The ONLY reason I am on food stamps is because the American Court System is completely set up to take the side of the woman. She got the house, the car, everything in the house and 1/2 my military pension. I was allowed to take my clothing and one computer.
She was also able to destroy both our credit ratings since we were married. I have missed out on two jobs that I know of because of that bad credit rating. I have given up on getting another job.

I do not see the point of your rant about Food Stamps and the government teat.

As for giving up Howard AFB. Do you realize that Panama has no Military? How would they respond to any military aggression? The U.N.? How many months would that take, all the while being pillaged by the attackers?
How long would it take for an organized force to completely destroy the oil pumping stations on both coasts and the canal locks? Hours? A day at most? There goes the GNP of the entire country.

With US military aircraft able to stage out of Howard any attacking force would be reduced to small bands avoiding any major road. A much more manageable situation and it would done within minuets.
This capability alone will deter virtually all aggressors from any major attempts at a coup.
Right now all sorts of permissions would need to be requested and granted. This takes time. More than one day and the locks and pumping stations are rubble.
While the former Howard AFB is somewhat serviceable in no way can it be said it's ready to support a military operation. Frankly, the Pan American Highway would serve as a better platform in supporting flight operations.

I served in the US Air Force for 20 years. The last 8 were in Combat Control. They are the people that fly into hostile areas and set up an airfield for all the planes that will be coming. I was in Panama for the 1989 outing of Noriega. I know what the US can do on short notice but the point is, it still takes time. With an operational base right there, ready to go, a vital (to US interests) would be protected whereas right now, there is a potentially disastrous delay between the attack and any response.

Originally Posted by RalphR

I will take your questions a little out of order. The debit is 1.5 trillion, you are off by a factor of 10.
I am one of the people on Food Stamps. The ONLY reason I am on food stamps is because the American Court System is completely set up to take the side of the woman. She got the house, the car, everything in the house and 1/2 my military pension. I was allowed to take my clothing and one computer.
She was also able to destroy both our credit ratings since we were married. I have missed out on two jobs that I know of because of that bad credit rating. I have given up on getting another job.

I do not see the point of your rant about Food Stamps and the government teat.

As for giving up Howard AFB. Do you realize that Panama has no Military? How would they respond to any military aggression? The U.N.? How many months would that take, all the while being pillaged by the attackers?
How long would it take for an organized force to completely destroy the oil pumping stations on both coasts and the canal locks? Hours? A day at most? There goes the GNP of the entire country.

With US military aircraft able to stage out of Howard any attacking force would be reduced to small bands avoiding any major road. A much more manageable situation and it would done within minuets.
This capability alone will deter virtually all aggressors from any major attempts at a coup.
Right now all sorts of permissions would need to be requested and granted. This takes time. More than one day and the locks and pumping stations are rubble.
While the former Howard AFB is somewhat serviceable in no way can it be said it's ready to support a military operation. Frankly, the Pan American Highway would serve as a better platform in supporting flight operations.

I served in the US Air Force for 20 years. The last 8 were in Combat Control. They are the people that fly into hostile areas and set up an airfield for all the planes that will be coming. I was in Panama for the 1989 outing of Noriega. I know what the US can do on short notice but the point is, it still takes time. With an operational base right there, ready to go, a vital (to US interests) would be protected whereas right now, there is a potentially disastrous delay between the attack and any response.

Two points -- a U.S. presence anywhere makes it a target so I disagree having a military presence in Panama makes everyone safer. Secondly, is it not the will of the sovereign nation (i.e., the Republica de Panama) that can best decide its needs? While I appreciate your service and unique point-of-view, I think Panama and its people are quite capable of deciding whether they want a foreign military to occupy their country. That kind of Yankee arrogance has served the U.S. quite poorly throughout the region.

Originally Posted by RalphR

I will take your questions a little out of order. The debit is 1.5 trillion, you are off by a factor of 10.
I am one of the people on Food Stamps. The ONLY reason I am on food stamps is because the American Court System is completely set up to take the side of the woman. She got the house, the car, everything in the house and 1/2 my military pension. I was allowed to take my clothing and one computer.
She was also able to destroy both our credit ratings since we were married. I have missed out on two jobs that I know of because of that bad credit rating. I have given up on getting another job.

I do not see the point of your rant about Food Stamps and the government teat.

As for giving up Howard AFB. Do you realize that Panama has no Military? How would they respond to any military aggression? The U.N.? How many months would that take, all the while being pillaged by the attackers?
How long would it take for an organized force to completely destroy the oil pumping stations on both coasts and the canal locks? Hours? A day at most? There goes the GNP of the entire country.

With US military aircraft able to stage out of Howard any attacking force would be reduced to small bands avoiding any major road. A much more manageable situation and it would done within minuets.
This capability alone will deter virtually all aggressors from any major attempts at a coup.
Right now all sorts of permissions would need to be requested and granted. This takes time. More than one day and the locks and pumping stations are rubble.
While the former Howard AFB is somewhat serviceable in no way can it be said it's ready to support a military operation. Frankly, the Pan American Highway would serve as a better platform in supporting flight operations.

I served in the US Air Force for 20 years. The last 8 were in Combat Control. They are the people that fly into hostile areas and set up an airfield for all the planes that will be coming. I was in Panama for the 1989 outing of Noriega. I know what the US can do on short notice but the point is, it still takes time. With an operational base right there, ready to go, a vital (to US interests) would be protected whereas right now, there is a potentially disastrous delay between the attack and any response.

sorry to tell you this but it is 15 trillion , time for you to do some homework , and second , who would invade panama ? they are not hated by everyone in the world , , i think you need to let go of the air farce you lived for 20 years . not all , but most people that have spent time in the forces can not think for themselves , they have been told when to run when to eat and when to shit all their lives , i was a private contractor that did work on bases and to tell you truth it was easier to do work around play grounds with 6 yr olds , at least then would not look at the bright light . i as a welder . you said your entire entertainment is the net , some sites you might learn something from are . the economic collapse , the american dream , and zero hedge .

Yep, 15 trillion. U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Based on the way you write, you CAN get a new job, you just don't want to since the government pays you more and would probably take that benefit away. They should put you on the street as far as I am concerned - remove your food stamps and revoke your pension for fraud. But then again, that would prevent the government from doing what it does best - spend others people money before they even have them on no budget restrctions.

Originally Posted by RalphR

I am one of the people on Food Stamps. The ONLY reason I am on food stamps is because the American Court System is completely set up to take the side of the woman. She got the house, the car, everything in the house and 1/2 my military pension. I was allowed to take my clothing and one computer.
She was also able to destroy both our credit ratings since we were married. I have missed out on two jobs that I know of because of that bad credit rating. I have given up on getting another job.

Panama with it's tiny police force is ill equipped to defend themselves. Heck why attack panama, with the corrupt police an invading army could just bribe their way in LOL. Seriously the U.S. would defend the canal or repair it if needed. Howard Air Force base would be a huge benefit to retired military if still open but from a practical stand point really isn't worth it. Big changes are coming to the western world and most everyone is in denial or not preparing. Allot of people who contribute on this forum are free thinking individuals who I think will appreciate this http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26694.html
There is no will in government anywhere to stop the spending madness. My advice don't get caught holding to many dollars.

Yeah, total debt 15 trillion, but keep it in perspective... that's also about one year's worth of our GDP.

Not saying we're not on the Titanic headed right for the iceburg with no political will to change course, just saying that we do make enough to start turning things around if the will was there.

Sadly, it isnt.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

i think you need to let go of the air farce you lived for 20 years . not all , but most people that have spent time in the forces can not think for themselves , they have been told when to run when to eat and when to shit all their lives , i was a private contractor that did work on bases and to tell you truth it was easier to do work around play grounds with 6 yr olds , at least then would not look at the bright light . i as a welder .

"Air Farce"? That's funny. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

I was trying my best to stay on the sidelines for the rest of this one, but since I "can not think think for myself", I guess I'll add my $.02 worth (again). How in the hell can you generalize the entire US military after working as a contracted welder on some unnamed base/post? Excuse me for saying this, but in my experience, the welders I've met aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer! I spent 25 years in the USAF and my co-workers and I were taught to think for ourselves and to think outside the box to try and come up with innovative solutions on a daily basis. We were continually challenged to do more with less while we were serving our country. IMHO, for you to make an assertion such as above, really shows your relative lack of intelligence. I'm not sure where you are from, but your command of the English language leaves a bit to be desired! Maybe if you had served in the military of your birth country, you would have a little more respect for those who decided to give up all the big money to be earned as welders and serve their country instead!

Let the flame war begin!

Originally Posted by fleeted

Panama with it's tiny police force is ill equipped to defend themselves. Heck why attack panama, with the corrupt police an invading army could just bribe their way in LOL. Seriously the U.S. would defend the canal or repair it if needed. Howard Air Force base would be a huge benefit to retired military if still open but from a practical stand point really isn't worth it. Big changes are coming to the western world and most everyone is in denial or not preparing. Allot of people who contribute on this forum are free thinking individuals who I think will appreciate this http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26694.html
There is no will in government anywhere to stop the spending madness. My advice don't get caught holding to many dollars.

Thanks. A US based organization espousing similar beliefs regarding the declining Dollar, unwarranted and ever-increasing government intrusion of privacy, and "getting out before it's too late" is the Sovereign Society. www.sovereignsociety.com

Coincidentally, the organization is holding their "10th Annual Wealth Building Seminar" in Panama City April 27 - 30 at Hotel Riu. No, I'm not affiliated with them and don't endorse them; just receive their emails and newsletters and like having their thoughts and opinions on matters even if I disagree. It happens to be I agree with most of their opinions.

Originally Posted by TennVol

"Air Farce"? That's funny. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

I was trying my best to stay on the sidelines for the rest of this one, but since I "can not think think for myself", I guess I'll add my $.02 worth (again). How in the hell can you generalize the entire US military after working as a contracted welder on some unnamed base/post? Excuse me for saying this, but in my experience, the welders I've met aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer! I spent 25 years in the USAF and my co-workers and I were taught to think for ourselves and to think outside the box to try and come up with innovative solutions on a daily basis. We were continually challenged to do less with more while we were serving our country. IMHO, for you to make an assertion such as abve, really shows your relative lack of intelligence. I'm not sure where you are from, but your command of the English language leaves a bit to be desired! Maybe if you had served in the military of your birth country, you would have a little more respect for those who decided to give up all the big money to be earned as welders and serve their country instead!

Let the flame war begin!

hi , well lets start with the air farce , my computer sometime makes mistakes , i have to look into getting it fixed LOL . i also see your computer has the same prolbem , when i find the right repair shop i will forward you their addy . LOL. I did not generalize the entire US or any other country entire army , you did that .i said, most but not all of the people i have meet can not think for themselves . i have no doubt that you ran into some welders that were not the sharpest knives in the drawer , my guess is they were in the USAF with you . hence the need to bring in private contractors .kind of makes you wonder , you have the people , the best equipment the taxpayers can buy and yet you pay me $80 a hour to come weld , yep sounds like a smart bunch at the top also LOL. as far as you having to come up with innovative solutions , well guess what, that is done everyday by owners of companies , the big difference is they are saving their own money / companies whereas you were saving taxpayers money ,so nothing lost out of your pocket if it fails . all i know is from experiance , put up a sign that says no parking and guess what , they will park next to it , put up a sign that says wet paint and guess what , they come crying they have paint on their uniforms , dont look at the bright light , and guess what , lift my helmet and there they are . so i only know from my own experiance , and yes my command of the english language is not as good as some , i guess i was more interested in high school about welding than i was about english , and it has served me well , retired to panama at 53 without a pension , thankyou very much , and no i was smart enough from a very young age not to join the forces , no country has the amount of money i would want to get killed for oil , the states has lost 5000 kids in Irag and Afg for what ?so Dick can make more money . not to mention the 50,000 you lost in vietnam , again for what ? now they are a trading partner of the States , there is a slap in the face to the families of 50,000 dead kids . so as far as i am concerned what i have stated is from experiance . it is just how i feel , you can feel however you want . and there will be no flame war as you say from me as i have finished stating my opinion .

Originally Posted by fleeted

Panama with it's tiny police force is ill equipped to defend themselves. Heck why attack panama, with the corrupt police an invading army could just bribe their way in LOL. Seriously the U.S. would defend the canal or repair it if needed. Howard Air Force base would be a huge benefit to retired military if still open but from a practical stand point really isn't worth it. Big changes are coming to the western world and most everyone is in denial or not preparing. Allot of people who contribute on this forum are free thinking individuals who I think will appreciate this http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26694.html
There is no will in government anywhere to stop the spending madness. My advice don't get caught holding to many dollars.

Read the article again and appreciate it even further. I think the author does a great job identifying the factors that cause inertia in most Americans and Europeans needing to take action. Certainly the US and other countries are doing all they can to prevent capital flight from their countries, but it's happening and has been for years. These things don't just spring up over night, but events like the Great Recession accelerate the rate of change. As far as foreign currencies and getting out of the USD, consider that the Swiss Franc (CHF) appreciated against the US Dollar over 10% in 2010. Money parked in a non-investment account (before interest and fees) "earned" you 10%. Wow! This occurred despite the European debt crisis that caused a temporary reversal of the CHF to the USD. Again, chart in out and see for yourself what the 1 year, 5 year or 10 year trend has been and one realizes how a declining USD is the monetary strategy of the US to try and bolster exports. So, here's to continued decline of the USD!

Did not know until recently that Yahoo! had an excellent currency converter on their finance site (left panel) that allows charting of currency rates. Yahoo! Finance - Business Finance, Stock Market, Quotes, News

Hi Bala,
Glad you enjoyed the article very insightful for those looking to break the chains. I was invited to attend the conference in April by my friend Sam. I had planned to attend but since his passing I have decided not to go. I am personally taking steps to liquidate and protect assets. Capital controls are already in place and yes I agree they will get tighter. The U.S. needs money circulating at home to support the fractional reserve banking system. Try leaving the country with more than 10 grand. Declare 20 grande upon leaving and be pulled aside and questioned like a common criminal, not to mention being robbed upon arrival at tocumen as the police and immigration tip off their buddies. Electronic transfers are the preferred method but are monitered. There is no privacy left except the person to person dealings with precious metals. The door will slam shut at some point but the very wealthy and people in the know will have moved their money prior. The rest of us will be the milk cows. Bob Chapman is reporting that sources inside the State Dept and chinese embassy are confirming that Hillary Clinton delivered agreements to China granting them Imminent Domain rights within the CONUS. This of course would be treason but when they are desperate to get the chinese to buy are treasuries and keep the ponzi going all options are on the table. The current administration does not recognize the Constitution and so trampling on it has been no problem for them.

Originally Posted by CerebralPrimate

Yeah, total debt 15 trillion, but keep it in perspective... that's also about one year's worth of our GDP.

Not saying we're not on the Titanic headed right for the iceburg with no political will to change course, just saying that we do make enough to start turning things around if the will was there.

Sadly, it isnt.

very true! i never understand this obsession, not only in usa but pretty much every country around the world, to spend every penny thats coming in, and then some. in netherlands we've been trying to lower our debt for so long, and every time some politician pushes tru some useless 10 billion project, of which every expert says its useless, or not needed etc.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

hi , well lets start with the air farce , my computer sometime makes mistakes , i have to look into getting it fixed LOL . i also see your computer has the same prolbem , when i find the right repair shop i will forward you their addy . LOL. I did not generalize the entire US or any other country entire army , you did that .i said, most but not all of the people i have meet can not think for themselves . i have no doubt that you ran into some welders that were not the sharpest knives in the drawer , my guess is they were in the USAF with you . hence the need to bring in private contractors .kind of makes you wonder , you have the people , the best equipment the taxpayers can buy and yet you pay me $80 a hour to come weld , yep sounds like a smart bunch at the top also LOL. as far as you having to come up with innovative solutions , well guess what, that is done everyday by owners of companies , the big difference is they are saving their own money / companies whereas you were saving taxpayers money ,so nothing lost out of your pocket if it fails . all i know is from experiance , put up a sign that says no parking and guess what , they will park next to it , put up a sign that says wet paint and guess what , they come crying they have paint on their uniforms , dont look at the bright light , and guess what , lift my helmet and there they are . so i only know from my own experiance , and yes my command of the english language is not as good as some , i guess i was more interested in high school about welding than i was about english , and it has served me well , retired to panama at 53 without a pension , thankyou very much , and no i was smart enough from a very young age not to join the forces , no country has the amount of money i would want to get killed for oil , the states has lost 5000 kids in Irag and Afg for what ?so Dick can make more money . not to mention the 50,000 you lost in vietnam , again for what ? now they are a trading partner of the States , there is a slap in the face to the families of 50,000 dead kids . so as far as i am concerned what i have stated is from experiance . it is just how i feel , you can feel however you want . and there will be no flame war as you say from me as i have finished stating my opinion .

Couldnt agree more! beats me how americans can be proud of their kids getting killed for nothing, not to mention the countless innocent victims on "enemy's" side!

Originally Posted by EdBowers

Based on the way you write, you CAN get a new job, you just don't want to since the government pays you more and would probably take that benefit away. They should put you on the street as far as I am concerned - remove your food stamps and revoke your pension for fraud. But then again, that would prevent the government from doing what it does best - spend others people money before they even have them on no budget restrctions.

hahaha ed yr awful but yr right