Thread: Panama Petty Theft

Hi,

I am a first time poster here, I have been keenly reading many, many threads and soaking in all the knowledge that there is to find.

My question is about security... I intend to rent a villa in a gringo-centric development near Boquete... I have heard that petty theft within Panama is in abundance and am quite worried. My work revolves around my laptop and if it were ever stolen I would obviously be ok, but the time to get a replacement, etc would hinder my business.

Is it safe to leave things such as laptops in a gringo villa? My thoughts at the moment are that I will forever carry my laptop with me, not something which is impossible, but obviously not ideal. What is the advice of this forum.. hide it simply out of sight when you leave, put is somewhere extremely secure each time I leave the villa? Or would you never worry about it in these areas... is the crime more central to the major cities?

Thank you all in advance for your wonderful advice.

Be smart and be safe...

The more of the following measures you employ the safe you'll be:

1. Get a dog (the bigger the better).
2. Get an alarm system.
3. Put a video camera above your doors.
4. Get a safe and bolt it to the floor -- put your valuables in there.
5. Make sure all your windows have bars.
6. Make sure to use something like Mozy (to upload all your data online).
7. Back up your computer to a local drive weekly and put the drive in the safe.
8. Use a computer lock and hook it to something that will take time and effort to cut.
9. Once you've done what you can -- Don't worry too much

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

Be smart and be safe...

The more of the following measures you employ the safe you'll be:

1. Get a dog (the bigger the better).
2. Get an alarm system.
3. Put a video camera above your doors.
4. Get a safe and bolt it to the floor -- put your valuables in there.
5. Make sure all your windows have bars.
6. Make sure to use something like Mozy (to upload all your data online).
7. Back up your computer to a local drive weekly and put the drive in the safe.
8. Use a computer lock and hook it to something that will take time and effort to cut.
9. Once you've done what you can -- Don't worry too much

Security in Panama is a matter of constant vigilance. Most crimes are ones of opportunity, but if someone finds out you have valuables in your house you could be a target for a home invasion. I plan on taking some measures at my house in Panama that will thwart an attempt.

I agree with Fleeted -- security is a mindset. It's a way of being in the world. I used to train people to deal with hardcore self-defense situation (home invasions, rapes, gang attacks). The most important thing is not being naive... not thinking "It's something that can't happen to me." We're all potential victims. At the same time -- if we're prepared we can have a confidence that will turn-off would-be criminals (especially walking around). And if we've done our preparations -- we can live feeling secure without falling into paranoia.

There's always going to next levels: guns and weapons being one of them. My friends who live in Boquete have 4 vicious dogs outside and 4 inside (because a lot of criminals poison the dogs -- this makes it more difficult to do so).

Be smart and be safe,
Matt

Boquete is a beautiful place but almost every person I know that lives there has had their house robbed at least once. Doesn't matter if you are in a gated community.

If anything "gated" attracts the robbers. I know a few people have been robbed in Valle Escondido. I still think my friends 4 dogs in and 4 dogs out is probably one of the strongest deterrents. Especially with a couple of big hounds thrown in the mix.

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

If anything "gated" attracts the robbers. I know a few people have been robbed in Valle Escondido. I still think my friends 4 dogs in and 4 dogs out is probably one of the strongest deterrents. Especially with a couple of big hounds thrown in the mix.

No doubt, I know somebody that purchased a half-million dollar house in a gated community and it got robbed in the middle of the night while they were sleeping. The only people the gate stops are the people that live in the community.

What about someone who lives modestly in a local neighborhood? Still a target?

There's always a risk -- although it would be lower IMO.

Petty theft is more of a nusiance to me. The real concern is home invasion, kidnapping or violent mugging. During my time in the Military precautions against being a target were drilled into us. I believe my heightened awareness and preparation has served me well. The problem with foriegners in Panama is that they are looked at with dollar signs by some of the locals. You may not think of yourself as wealth but you are Donald Trump to the poverty stricken. Poor does not mean criminal, There are plenty of poor people who would not risk there soul to do harm to others. There are a percentage that will and there lies the problem. Common sense things such as not flashing cash, carrying cash on multiple parts of your body, money belt, taking a cab instead of walking at night, going out with a group, limiting drunkenness, not accepting drinks or cigarettes from strangers, carrying a stungun and pepper spray, if you are driving at night and come to an obstruction in the road (tree, car etc..) DO NOT LEAVE YOUR CAR, back up, DRIVE TO SAFE AREA and notify police police to remove blockage. If someone knocks on your door and you don't know them don't open the door. As Matt said dogs are a great thing. If you have one or more dogs fall ill get ready as criminals will usually poison dogs prior to a robbery or invasion. A shotgun is the best weapon for home defense. You can plant undesirable plants such as bayonet palms or thorney plants under exterior windows as a deterrent. An external video with audio will be helpful. Have the video backed up and stored online as this could be valuable in identifying perps after the fact. Personally my plan is to identify them by pulling their cedula from their wallet prior to disposal, but thats just me!!! Here is a link of a recent attack in Bugaba. This attack was only 3 streets away from my amiga's family.
American Stabbed and Robbed in Bugaba, Chiriqui - Panama Guide

When I was stationed in Panama, we never left anything outside our home we did not want to have stolen. I lived on an Air Force base in a "secure" environment. I can't tell you how many friends had things stolen from outside their homes. One neighbor had the bars pried away from a window in their maids quarters/storage room, a person slipped in through the very small opening, and stole all the frozen food from their freezer. This happened in broad daylight while they were at work. We even had bags of charcoal and old tennis shoes stolen from our carport. All of our washers and dryers were outside the house on the ground floor on the carport. At one point, we were advised to keep our washers full of water (and unplugged) to discourage theft. I had a neighbor across the street who had a nice little 14 ft jon boat with a 50HP outboard motor. They picked up the boat and the motor and attempted to push the boat through the Kuna grass behind our house into the jungle. They only got 50 yards or so into the grass/jungle before they abandoned the boat, but they took the motor and the fuel tank.

I love Panama, and we are planning on returning there to retire. But you have to have your eyes wide open and pay attention to your surroundings. I'm sure most of us on this board don't think of ourselves as well to do. In Panama, most of the locals will see you that way and some of them may try to relieve you of the burden of having (in their eyes anyway) way too many things!

To put it into perspective, most of the people in Panama that have full-time jobs bring home around $500/month (more or less). When my wife's family asked what we make in a month, their jaws dropped after they heard the answer. But by no means are we (nor do we consider ourselves) well off. In their eyes, most expats/foreigners are very well off - even though we know we are not (at least not while living here in the US).

I'm certainly not trying to excuse the thieves for what they are doing (continue to prosecute them and lock them up), I'm just trying to give folks a point of reference.

Do you think there's much difference in this respect between Panama City and some of the smaller towns in the interior? We're looking in the David and Las Tablas areas.

I have lived in Panama for six years - four years on Air Force bases and two years in Panama City. I have visited my in-laws in the interior (Anton/Penonome area) for several weeks at a time, several times over the last ten years.

...Personally, I feel much safer in the interior.

Originally Posted by TennVol

I have lived in Panama for six years - four years on Air Force bases and two years in Panama City. I have visited my in-laws in the interior (Anton/Penonome area) for several weeks at a time, several times over the last ten years.

...Personally, I feel much safer in the interior.

Thanks. That's what I suspected.

Originally Posted by FutureExpat.com

Do you think there's much difference in this respect between Panama City and some of the smaller towns in the interior? We're looking in the David and Las Tablas areas.

David I would really watch out. Stuff can and does happen occasionally anywhere in Panama, including Las Tablas.

David has more cops than any place else I have seen in Panama. Seems like they are hanging out on all main street corners, just standing there in the heat. There are also allot of road blocks in that area. I was breathlyzed in Dolega while driving back to Valle Escondido from David. Police were professional but very slow getting me back my passport.

Originally Posted by TennVol

When I was stationed in Panama, we never left anything outside our home we did not want to have stolen. I lived on an Air Force base in a "secure" environment. I can't tell you how many friends had things stolen from outside their homes. One neighbor had the bars pried away from a window in their maids quarters/storage room, a person slipped in through the very small opening, and stole all the frozen food from their freezer. This happened in broad daylight while they were at work. We even had bags of charcoal and old tennis shoes stolen from our carport. All of our washers and dryers were outside the house on the ground floor on the carport. At one point, we were advised to keep our washers full of water (and unplugged) to discourage theft. I had a neighbor across the street who had a nice little 14 ft jon boat with a 50HP outboard motor. They picked up the boat and the motor and attempted to push the boat through the Kuna grass behind our house into the jungle. They only got 50 yards or so into the grass/jungle before they abandoned the boat, but they took the motor and the fuel tank.

I love Panama, and we are planning on returning there to retire. But you have to have your eyes wide open and pay attention to your surroundings. I'm sure most of us on this board don't think of ourselves as well to do. In Panama, most of the locals will see you that way and some of them may try to relieve you of the burden of having (in their eyes anyway) way too many things!

To put it into perspective, most of the people in Panama that have full-time jobs bring home around $500/month (more or less). When my wife's family asked what we make in a month, their jaws dropped after they heard the answer. But by no means are we (nor do we consider ourselves) well off. In their eyes, most expats/foreigners are very well off - even though we know we are not (at least not while living here in the US).

I'm certainly not trying to excuse the thieves for what they are doing (continue to prosecute them and lock them up), I'm just trying to give folks a point of reference.

Thanks for the good warning, Tenn. It is a reminder to all of us. Even a poor outsider has more money than the locals.

On a recent trip to Portobelo, my brother was driving and somewhere just past Sabanitas he veered left when the main road headed right. We quickly realized the error and turned around. In the 30 seconds that passed, a local lad had laid a large tree branch across the street to stop us. It was strategically chosen for that location as a diablo rojo was parked on the street making it one car wide. His buddy was hiding behind the bus, expecting us to get out and confront the thug. Instantly, my brother simply drove over the branch (with all of its stubs designed to flatten tires) and we were on our way. What exactly were their intentions and how far would they have gone? Who knows, but it pissed me off--wished we had gotten out, grabbed the branch and beat him on the head with it. Common sense says that would have been stupid - a couple of tourists verses local thugs. Hmmm. Not worth seeing what the outcome of that investigatiion would have been. Anyway, it does happen and when you least expect.

Color me enlightened... guess I didnt realize it was quite so bad, especially in the gated communities. I figured gated community + several large dogs + a live-in maid would be enough to ward off a break-in.

I mean, there's really not much that'll stop a very determined criminal, but you can make it so that there are just much easier targets elsewhere. I def like some of Fleeted's ideas.

Originally Posted by CerebralPrimate

Color me enlightened... guess I didnt realize it was quite so bad, especially in the gated communities. I figured gated community + several large dogs + a live-in maid would be enough to ward off a break-in.

I mean, there's really not much that'll stop a very determined criminal, but you can make it so that there are just much easier targets elsewhere. I def like some of Fleeted's ideas.

Hey cerebral here is another tip you might find useful. When I worked in San Francisco we had a guy who was attacked in his car outside a nightclub. The perps shattered the glass from the drivers side window with a pipe. Pieces of glass flew into both eyes. He was then pulled from the car and beaten. We were able to retrieve the glass particles and save his eyes. He said he would have driven off except once the glass was in his eyes he was helpless. This is a concern in Panama especially in a situation where someone may lay something across the road and attack your vehicle. The solution is a security film that reinforces the glass and stop it from shattering. While it is not bullet proof it does provide you with more safety and reaction time. Hope this helps. Here is a link. Safety and Security Window Films - FormulaOne Automotive Window Protection

Originally Posted by BalaBeacher

On a recent trip to Portobelo, my brother was driving and somewhere just past Sabanitas he veered left when the main road headed right. We quickly realized the error and turned around. In the 30 seconds that passed, a local lad had laid a large tree branch across the street to stop us. It was strategically chosen for that location as a diablo rojo was parked on the street making it one car wide. His buddy was hiding behind the bus, expecting us to get out and confront the thug. Instantly, my brother simply drove over the branch (with all of its stubs designed to flatten tires) and we were on our way. What exactly were their intentions and how far would they have gone? Who knows, but it pissed me off--wished we had gotten out, grabbed the branch and beat him on the head with it. Common sense says that would have been stupid - a couple of tourists verses local thugs. Hmmm. Not worth seeing what the outcome of that investigatiion would have been. Anyway, it does happen and when you least expect.

Wow, BalaBeacher, this is pretty wild to hear about. Looks like it is this tactic is getting more common. You were smart to just gas it and go through otherwise you might have ended up dead in the ditch. Sorry to have that happen to you.

I took a cab from Almirante to David. As we drove the road through Chiriqui Grande the cab driver pointed out areas where there are frequent rock slides and also pointed out a couple of places perps liked to stage blocked roads. He stated he will not make the trip at night and won't leave out from Almirante unless it is early enough to complete the roundtrip prior to night fall. Taxi drivers are the eyes and ears of Panama and you can learn allot from them.

Originally Posted by india

Wow, BalaBeacher, this is pretty wild to hear about. Looks like it is this tactic is getting more common. You were smart to just gas it and go through otherwise you might have ended up dead in the ditch. Sorry to have that happen to you.

If my wife knew about it she'd never agree to go there! I don't know what their intentions were, but they weren't there to welcome us!

As far as WORST areas in Panama -- Colon (including Portobello and the surrounding areas) is generally the worst. BalaBeacher is not the first not the last -- my friend drove to Portobello with his family (3 kids) and out-of-the-blue men in masks tried to make him veer off the road and threw things at the car. This is one of the reasons that people would have to PAY ME BIG to live at the Bala project.

Originally Posted by BalaBeacher

If my wife knew about it she'd never agree to go there! I don't know what their intentions were, but they weren't there to welcome us!

when traveling in Panama you need to carry a stungun. I carry a small 3" one million volt beauty the size of a lipstick cartridge. It goes into checked luggage and then fits in your pocket. It will drop a 300 pound man in seconds. When in Pedasi I showed mine to Nakedguy he like it allot. I promised to bring an extra one back down for him on my next trip. I routinely carry it into niteclubs. The police or security frisk me but don't suspect it is anything. Nice thing to have when on the town at night.

Ok Fleeted, now I want one. Could you tell me what type it is so that I can google it in.
Thanks,

Originally Posted by india

Ok Fleeted, now I want one. Could you tell me what type it is so that I can google it in.
Thanks,

India here is a link
STUN MASTER 950,000 Volt RECHARGEABLE LIPSTICK STUN GUN
I would get one prior to leaving for Panama as they probably don't have them there. It also has a small flashlight which I found helpful reading bills in dark niteclubs. It is a must have for travel.

Originally Posted by No-Non-Sense-Matt

As far as WORST areas in Panama -- Colon (including Portobello and the surrounding areas) is generally the worst. BalaBeacher is not the first not the last -- my friend drove to Portobello with his family (3 kids) and out-of-the-blue men in masks tried to make him veer off the road and threw things at the car. This is one of the reasons that people would have to PAY ME BIG to live at the Bala project.

First of all, no one is going to pay you to live ANYWHERE, Bala included.

Second, Bala and Portebelo are 30 and 50 minutes, respectively, from Colon, more or less. That's as far as Tocumen to Clayton, maybe? In my major U.S. city, "safe" areas can be a few blocks from "unsafe" areas, just like Panama City.

Third, let's be sure and not over-react. These were two scrawny, shirtless youths with no weapons or shoes. Yes, I got a good look. No, it certainly was not a good situation, but let's be honest -- we'd have been shot in many areas of many cities in the U.S. and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by fleeted

India here is a link
STUN MASTER 950,000 Volt RECHARGEABLE LIPSTICK STUN GUN
I would get one prior to leaving for Panama as they probably don't have them there. It also has a small flashlight which I found helpful reading bills in dark niteclubs. It is a must have for travel.

See also (although I cannot vouch for these vendors like fleeted can) for comparision:

Stun Guns

The Home Security Superstore - Stun Guns For Women

Stun Guns From Hughes Security Solutions

I am for the stun gun idea as I like the non-lethality angle. That said, I am a big guy who has spent a few years in fight gyms, so I can handle myself pretty well (at least, far better than someone with little or no training) and I think that projects... once again, I think it often boils down to just making yourself a more difficult target- if a criminal has to choose who to rob, the 6'2, 250lb guy that looks like he's ready to fight or the unsuspecting, half-drunk tourist, most of the time they'll give the more difficult looking target a pass. But even being a big guy with some training, I dont go walking in unknown places after dark, I dont drink heavily when I'm out socially, etc. Its good to be big, it's great to be trained, but most of all, just be smart.

Perhaps I am naive, but I dont worry a lot about violent crime in Boquete. I am far more concerned with the property crime thing, which I didnt realize was a very big problem there. I will be visiting there in April and I'll definitely talk to the neighbors and the expats in the area and get more feedback about the issue.