Thread: Moving from Costa Rica to Panama

Hi there,

I am thinking of relocating to Panama, Costa Rica, as beautiful as it is, was not a very positive experience for me overall especially in terms of getting anything done...
I am curious about setting up a small business in Panama, somehow, I can't seem the minimum investment amount needed to do so. I am talking about a very small scale business and possibly self employed kind like teaching mandarin or doing some administrative work.
Also, I am looking to live near a beach, preferably the non party kind. Would it be expensive?
If anyone kind enough can offer me some pointers, I would very much appreciate it!

Hi. Would U mind detailing why Costa Rica isn't working for U? I'm interested in Costa Rica as well as Panama. Thank you. -MH

Originally Posted by Markus451

Hi. Would U mind detailing why Costa Rica isn't working for U? I'm interested in Costa Rica as well as Panama. Thank you. -MH

I guess it's the same being in a third world country where people try to get as much money from you as possible. I was just surprised by the lack of basic courtesy from most of the locals here. It feels like we owe them something when we buy something from there or eat at the restaurants....a person I know here got screwed over here as well and not for much money at all but he had no electricity for 4 days, got his stuff stolen, etc.
Doing business is near impossible without much capital (i guess, its the standard) and I was surprised at the lack of english skills especially when it is well known as a tourist spot.
Of course, maybe I am just unlucky.

A neighboring country to the south or north will be about the same. I suggest you go to Canada or Chile instead.

Originally Posted by EdBowers

A neighboring country to the south or north will be about the same. I suggest you go to Canada or Chile instead.

maybe, i do understand its always hard in any county u move to. but of course, without giving it a shot u'd never know. And, it seems that panama still ranks better than costa rica in most aspects. i appreciate your suggestion but it's not an option to me. it was not my intentions to bash costa rica or anything someone asked me a question and i replied with honestly in a cordial way.

i have been here 3 yrs and from what you have decribed it could have been panama you are talking about , if you are not happy in costa rica you will not be happy here , same prolbems . and others will have to answer about your work , from what i kind of understand, panama is a bring your own money kind of country , dont except it to support you ,

I lived in Costa Rica for 31 years. I have permanent residence there. I am now living in Panama, and have been here about a year. Forget about a business unless you are a one man band. The lawyers are unreliable and you have to be on their backs all the time, and they are expensive in the long run. As for living near the beach, depends on which beach, do you want to rent or buy.??? I can help you with properties as my wife is in real estate. If you are not married to a Panamanian, residence is going to be difficult. It will also be almost impossible to have a business in your name without a cedula.
The one good thing about Panama is it's cheaper than Costa Rica, but CR is much more service orientated and there are many ways to start a businee there without heavy investment.
I'm here because I work remotely via Internet and travel between the two countries.

Originally Posted by suncr

I lived in Costa Rica for 31 years. I have permanent residence there. I am now living in Panama, and have been here about a year. Forget about a business unless you are a one man band. The lawyers are unreliable and you have to be on their backs all the time, and they are expensive in the long run. As for living near the beach, depends on which beach, do you want to rent or buy.??? I can help you with properties as my wife is in real estate. If you are not married to a Panamanian, residence is going to be difficult. It will also be almost impossible to have a business in your name without a cedula.
The one good thing about Panama is it's cheaper than Costa Rica, but CR is much more service orientated and there are many ways to start a businee there without heavy investment.
I'm here because I work remotely via Internet and travel between the two countries.

I am loving Panama at the moment

If you want set up a small business Panama is one of the best places to star. Years ago I met this Middle easter with a small restaurant on a poor section of the city making a killing serving a plate of Rice, Beans and Stew meat....Here in Panama there are Chinese, Jews, Euros blablabla.....Do not rely on lawyers there are as bad as New York layers, Roll your sleeves and get down to business....

Do not bother. Panama is just as bad regarding getting things done on time. Deadlines and promise dates are always broken here. It almost seems as if they simply don't care... whatever. Also there is a serious ethics issue in Panama when it comes to money. Panamanians are good people otherwise, but whenever it comes to money they will lie to you and take advantage of you. It is rare to find an honest person. I've hired numerous workers in the past from unskilled to self proclaimed highly skilled and it has been a complete nightmare that you would not believe. So much grief and opportunity cost. The problem is regional though. In certain areas the people are solid, hard working and proud. In other areas they are complete scum bag filth. I just happen to live and work in the filth zone unfortunately (the interior near Coronado beach). I've hired many people who just drag their feet and don't finish the job but demand to be paid in full. They always complain the job was harder than they thought and demand more money in order to finish. The only reason I have not told many workers to F-off you POS is because they threaten to call the police who will always side with them, or they will vandalize your house and poison your dogs. That's why I give them the money and wave goodbye. I have a lot of experience with this because I do business in Panama and need to hire a lot of people across the board including hiring people for personal needs. I am not venting, I'm just speaking the truth.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Do not bother. Panama is just as bad regarding getting things done on time. Deadlines and promise dates are always broken here. It almost seems as if they simply don't care... whatever. Also there is a serious ethics issue in Panama when it comes to money. Panamanians are good people otherwise, but whenever it comes to money they will lie to you and take advantage of you. It is rare to find an honest person. I've hired numerous workers in the past from unskilled to self proclaimed highly skilled and it has been a complete nightmare that you would not believe. So much grief and opportunity cost. The problem is regional though. In certain areas the people are solid, hard working and proud. In other areas they are complete scum bag filth. I just happen to live and work in the filth zone unfortunately (the interior near Coronado beach). I've hired many people who just drag their feet and don't finish the job but demand to be paid in full. They always complain the job was harder than they thought and demand more money in order to finish. The only reason I have not told many workers to F-off you POS is because they threaten to call the police who will always side with them, or they will vandalize your house and poison your dogs. That's why I give them the money and wave goodbye. I have a lot of experience with this because I do business in Panama and need to hire a lot of people across the board including hiring people for personal needs. I am not venting, I'm just speaking the truth.

Like everywhere else...Do not hire people just because they self proclaim their craftsmanship go to the good ol recommendation and reference is your money do not bet in on dead horses....

I work as a contractor in Mexico for many years and the best way to do a job in your business is by describing the job to the candidate and pay on contract basis and expected quality....Good luck...

I think I can summarize my experience like this.

If I had known what I had coming my way during the first year in Panama I would never have set my foot in the country.

Now it's not so bad. You learn to work around them.

I basically just buy food and heavy stuff like batteries in Panama. The rest I import myself.

I would never do business inside Panama. NEVER.

Originally Posted by Fernando22x

Like everywhere else...Do not hire people just because they self proclaim their craftsmanship go to the good ol recommendation and reference is your money do not bet in on dead horses....

I work as a contractor in Mexico for many years and the best way to do a job in your business is by describing the job to the candidate and pay on contract basis and expected quality....Good luck...

Hey Ed, if I may ask, what part of Panama do you live in, and how do you import stuff? Am planning on living on the Azuero and have lots of questions about mail, mail order, etc. Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by EdBowers

I think I can summarize my experience like this.

If I had known what I had coming my way during the first year in Panama I would never have set my foot in the country.

Now it's not so bad. You learn to work around them.

I basically just buy food and heavy stuff like batteries in Panama. The rest I import myself.

I would never do business inside Panama. NEVER.

Yes, any information about how to work around the issues would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Do not bother. Panama is just as bad regarding getting things done on time. Deadlines and promise dates are always broken here. It almost seems as if they simply don't care... whatever. Also there is a serious ethics issue in Panama when it comes to money. Panamanians are good people otherwise, but whenever it comes to money they will lie to you and take advantage of you. It is rare to find an honest person. I've hired numerous workers in the past from unskilled to self proclaimed highly skilled and it has been a complete nightmare that you would not believe. So much grief and opportunity cost. The problem is regional though. In certain areas the people are solid, hard working and proud. In other areas they are complete scum bag filth. I just happen to live and work in the filth zone unfortunately (the interior near Coronado beach). I've hired many people who just drag their feet and don't finish the job but demand to be paid in full. They always complain the job was harder than they thought and demand more money in order to finish. The only reason I have not told many workers to F-off you POS is because they threaten to call the police who will always side with them, or they will vandalize your house and poison your dogs. That's why I give them the money and wave goodbye. I have a lot of experience with this because I do business in Panama and need to hire a lot of people across the board including hiring people for personal needs. I am not venting, I'm just speaking the truth.

I 2nd his assessment of Panama. Its a nightmare to get anything done here. The government and banks are train wrecks waiting to happen and they do....all the time. The most important thing to remember is...IF THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING, THEY ARE LYING!!!

Also, stay away from Multibank and HSBC.......truly the worst banks on the planet. Their MORON quotient was filled long ago. Most banks here hire people just to fill seats. They basically just yes you to death and keep you from contacting the higher ups. Who, if I may add, are just as stupid. These people don't even know how things work. They are masters at passing the Balboa!!!

Screw this place....look at the Pacific Islands or New Zealand.

Good Luck

Originally Posted by EdBowers

I think I can summarize my experience like this.

If I had known what I had coming my way during the first year in Panama I would never have set my foot in the country.

Now it's not so bad. You learn to work around them.

I basically just buy food and heavy stuff like batteries in Panama. The rest I import myself.

I would never do business inside Panama. NEVER.

Sounds just like where I live now in SE Asia. Don't do business, just live and enjoy life.

Getting stuff done (almost anything) here can be a challenge, no doubt.

I am currently in Pedasi. There are tons of lots for sale but not much construction. I am hearing the same that building a house or hiring a contractor in Panama will take years off your life or at least add lots of grey hair lol.

Hey give me a call....6461-3904 n we can hook up. Also yoou may wany to check out my blog here>>>> Problems with building in Panama

Originally Posted by Fernando22x

Like everywhere else...Do not hire people just because they self proclaim their craftsmanship go to the good ol recommendation and reference is your money do not bet in on dead horses....

I work as a contractor in Mexico for many years and the best way to do a job in your business is by describing the job to the candidate and pay on contract basis and expected quality....Good luck...

You need to realize that Panamanians have a habit of going rogue in an instant. They are saints one day then all of a sudden they become slime. I am sure many expats reading this have their own horror stories. That is why I do not trust them, period. Not because they are all bad, but because it's not worth the risk to me. The vast majority of people I have encountered are not honest. Only a few are. Don't get me wrong, I respect them on the family front. Panamanians are nice people and they value family and raising their kids. That's great. BUT, honesty and ethics are a problem and that needs to be taught in the family. It took many years for me to find just a few honest and reliable people whom I can trust.

Originally Posted by jimforrester609

Hey give me a call....6461-3904 n we can hook up. Also yoou may wany to check out my blog here>>>> Problems with building in Panama

That is a great website Jim with a lot of honest experience. I would recommend it is a must read for new folks wanting to know how biz get's done here.

MR WOOHOO: do you have hostile neighbors out in the Azuero? I live in an area of upper crust Panamanians out in the countryside who have weekend homes, but failed to realize they have full time caretakers who are not the most honest people in the world. I rescue stray dogs by feeding them rather than letting them starve to death, but they run free. Words got out now that anyone can blame me for what these dogs do such as eating chickens or causing damage and therefore they are lining up to get money out of me. I paid out a lot of money so far because they would threaten to call the police if I didn't.

But I setup a trap and brought the dogs inside my house for the last few days and guess what? Today one scum bag came by and said he saw my dogs eat his food and chickens this morning and wanted more money out of me. I showed him that the dogs were in my house and never were out for the last few days. I called my Panamanian friend who is bi-lingual (I speak only a little Spanish) to explain to him the situation, but he would not budge. He was caught in a lie, but like all hard headed Panamanians, they do not back down. He kept threatening to call the police on me. I smiled at him and waved goodbye. We'll see if the police show up.

Moral of the story: You can choose to live in a ghetto or live in a nice area and you still need to deal with low lives.

I live in Panama City. I have mail forwarding with Aeropost, Mailboxes Etc. Aeropost is best for heavier stuff. Mailboxes Etc include 4.4 pounds per month at $30. I buy shoes, jeans, electronics, car parts, caps, basically everything online from the US.

All mail forwarding companies in Panama are committing advartising fraud (except Mailboxes Etc) since they claim to offer a PO Box in Miami. In fact, you have no PO Box in Miami, and they do not sort the mail in the US, but forward everything in bulk for sorting in Panama.

Mailboxes Etc ADDS TRACKING AND SORTS THE MAIL IN THE US!!! If you need to get mail, credit card replacements and checks it's the only viable option in Panama. $360 per year - it's expensive to live in Panama by western standards.

Originally Posted by cjr

Hey Ed, if I may ask, what part of Panama do you live in, and how do you import stuff? Am planning on living on the Azuero and have lots of questions about mail, mail order, etc. Thanks in advance!

I thought you were smarter than that Felicity!

The first time they showed up at your door you should have told them to kill the dog. Print out a picture and mark the sweet spot on the skull.

When the monkey walks away with his tail between his legs you scream - you have to protect your family better!

Originally Posted by Felicity

I paid out a lot of money so far because they would threaten to call the police if I didn't.

My strategy is to work with 6 banks and dump the worst one each year and get a new one. One can optimize what works better then. Some smaller offices have great service.

They do like a to lie a lot of make up stories to motivate their incompetence. When you catch them lying you have just offended them more.

"No quiero hacer negocios con un mono."
"Cierra su boca, tengo que irme."

are very useful phrases in Panama.

Originally Posted by jimforrester609

I 2nd his assessment of Panama. Its a nightmare to get anything done here. The government and banks are train wrecks waiting to happen and they do....all the time. The most important thing to remember is...IF THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING, THEY ARE LYING!!!

So if I buy a couple pairs of jeans, I've paid US prices for them + US shipping + import duty + $30 to Mailboxes Etc for international shipping? I understand getting bills and hard to find parts though.

Originally Posted by Felicity

MR WOOHOO: do you have hostile neighbors out in the Azuero? I live in an area of upper crust Panamanians out in the countryside who have weekend homes, but failed to realize they have full time caretakers who are not the most honest people in the world. I rescue stray dogs by feeding them rather than letting them starve to death, but they run free. Words got out now that anyone can blame me for what these dogs do such as eating chickens or causing damage and therefore they are lining up to get money out of me. I paid out a lot of money so far because they would threaten to call the police if I didn't.

But I setup a trap and brought the dogs inside my house for the last few days and guess what? Today one scum bag came by and said he saw my dogs eat his food and chickens this morning and wanted more money out of me. I showed him that the dogs were in my house and never were out for the last few days. I called my Panamanian friend who is bi-lingual (I speak only a little Spanish) to explain to him the situation, but he would not budge. He was caught in a lie, but like all hard headed Panamanians, they do not back down. He kept threatening to call the police on me. I smiled at him and waved goodbye. We'll see if the police show up.

Moral of the story: You can choose to live in a ghetto or live in a nice area and you still need to deal with low lives.

Hi Felicity, I have to admit (knock on wood) that I consider myself fortunate in my location. My girlfriend and I have been renting a 3 br/1 bath house for 1.5 years in a typical neighborhood. The only real issue I have had with the neighbors was the kids playing baseball in the empty lot next door and constantly knocking it on my roof. After (aprox) the 30th time I finally stopped smiling, returning their ball, and I yelled at them. Things were a little tense in the neighborhood for about a month but I went out of my way to still smile, say hello, and kill them with kindness. It also took a Pana-gringo to explain to the kids "would their fathers be ok if I was hitting the top of their homes with a baseball whenever, climbing on their roof, and creating leaks?". They finally got it and understood that I wasn't just trying to be the "mean gringo" but it wasn't easy. Other than that my neighbors are quiet, say hello, have helped out my girlfriend when she locked herself out of her car with the motor running in the street, all good. A couple of things that add to the safety and sanity of my location is:
A. The chief of local police lives nearby so police are cruising through the neighborhood at all hours (and they seem friendly enough).
B. Two doors down from me there is a home that is owned by an important Panamanian. The minister of health (for all of Panama) stayed there during the massive Pollera Festival. I see security guards with bullet-proof vests, ear pieces, new SUV's parking their and up to the font of my yard at times.

The only "crime" I see in my neighborhood are what appears to be a few local kids smoking pot in the empty lot next door in the middle of the night. You see a lighter constantly flicking on and a lot of coughing. One night I opened the windows and put on some Bob Marley for them, they appreciated it. My personal experience has been pretty positive BUT I don't let just anybody into my house.

With Ed using his phrases and WooHoo not letting just anyone in (or on) his house, it's no wonder that gringos have a bad reputation. At least the packs of feral dogs like us.

The idea is not to buy anything for which you cannot present an invoice for $49.99 or less making is tax exempt for personal use (use your imagination.....). The price for high quality jeans in the US is 50 % less than Panama, easily. Same goes for shoes. Most recent pair I bought were $130 in Panama and $55 on eBay.

Mailboxes I am already paying $30 a month which included 4.4 pounds per month so might as well use it up. Comes out to maybe $5 per pound for heavier things with Aeropost.

It makes perfect financial sense to me, but you can buy no-brand jeans in Panama for $8 of course of probably high quality.

Originally Posted by jonr

So if I buy a couple pairs of jeans, I've paid US prices for them + US shipping + import duty + $30 to Mailboxes Etc for international shipping? I understand getting bills and hard to find parts though.

Hmmm, imagine this instead.

You are in any civilized country in the world and call to complain about your interest connection. They agree that what has happened to you is unaccaptable and refund this months charge. 5 minutes spent.

In Panama you go to an office and wait for 1 hour, then you get to talk to someone. This person has no authority to issue a refund. The person disappears for 30 mins. Then the system is down. Then the manager leaves for the day - you can see that the person assisting you sees this. The person who was helping you then talks with you for some time and says that they cannot do anything today since the manager has left (and besides the system is down). You then suggest that she writes everything on a piece of paper for system entry tomorrow. A blank stare is returned.

You come back the next day, system is up and running. You wait for 2 hours (more people today since system was down yesterday). After reviewing your account they inform you that they cannot do anything since it's not in your name, but your girlfriends (although they have you credit card on file and bill it each month).

At that time you pull out a gun and shoot the employee point blank in the face. On your way out you pistol whip two other employees.

Does that explain it better?

Originally Posted by jonr

With Ed using his phrases and WooHoo not letting just anyone in (or on) his house, it's no wonder that gringos have a bad reputation.