Thread: What's the future of retirement in Panama?

My wife and I are planning to retire in 3-4 years and have been exploring many options. Right now Panama is at the top of our list. Our situation will be such that we should be able to move there, pay for a house outright and have a monthly income of approximately $1,800 the first year and $2,100 a year or so later when my wife's Social Security starts. Our research indicates that we should be able to live modestly, but comfortably, especially in the interior which would prefer anyway.

I've read some information that said that while the real estate bubble hasn't burst yet in Panama, that the trickle down from the US recession will hit and real estate could fall by anywhere from 50 to 80%. That the developers have overbuilt, particularly the condos, and many planned developments are now either on hold or being canceled.

I'm curious to hear the opinions of those of you already living in Panama as to what you think the situation will be in 3 or 4 years. I know that's not easy, and would be pure speculation on your part, but all the same I would like to hear what you have to say on the subject.

Thanks,

Al

Hi Blues,
Welcome to the forum, Isn't it great! I am also looking at Panama to retire. I plan to rent as I also believe Panama is in for a housing correction. I am planning my second visit this fall and really think Panama has potential. I enjoy Reading Don Winners blog it has lots of Panama news in english.
http://www.panama-guide.com/
The People on this forum can answer pretty much all your questions, but nothing beatshaving your feet on the ground in Panama. Again welcome!!!!!

Thanks for the welcome. We're planning our first visit for the winter of 2011, if we can wait that long! I'm psyched to go tomorrow.

I've already been on Don Winners page. Good source. Of course, I've got tons of questions and I'm sure I'll get to them all in time. For now I'm still reading and taking in as much as I can. Nothing like the thought and planning of a new adventure to get the old juices flowing.

Hi Blues,
You will hear different opinions on needing to know spanish. I found most people did not speak english. I would recommend learning some if you don't already. It gets worse as you venture into the interior. Expect to be checked for "papers" by police, even if you are in a cab. Canal tour at Mires flores locks was good. The Amador causeway is nice way to spend an afternoon. I am adventureous so I rented a car at Allbrook and drove to Boquete, stopping at othe rtowns along the way. Take my advice don't drive at night. Panamanian cars on the highway with no lights and traveling 30mph. You can hit them before you see them. No need to drive in city, bumper to bumper, crazy.. take a cab they are everywhere. I plan to spend a month or longer this trip and open a bank acount. I'll let you know how that experience goes. Happy travels.

My wife and I are planning on learning as much Spanish as we can before moving. We'll start this winter, probably with something like Rosetta Stone. We intend to use it as much as we can, between ourselves, so that we have some skill level when we arrive. I've already read about driving at night. I don't care much for night driving anymore, even around here, so that won't be an issue for me. Both of us have lived abroad, the wife in Germany as a kid (Army brat) and me in the Philippines. Different cultures but still good experience.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your report on your travels.

Originally Posted by fleeted

Hi Blues,
You will hear different opinions on needing to know spanish. I found most people did not speak english. I would recommend learning some if you don't already. It gets worse as you venture into the interior. Expect to be checked for "papers" by police, even if you are in a cab. Canal tour at Mires flores locks was good. The Amador causeway is nice way to spend an afternoon. I am adventureous so I rented a car at Allbrook and drove to Boquete, stopping at othe rtowns along the way. Take my advice don't drive at night. Panamanian cars on the highway with no lights and traveling 30mph. You can hit them before you see them. No need to drive in city, bumper to bumper, crazy.. take a cab they are everywhere. I plan to spend a month or longer this trip and open a bank acount. I'll let you know how that experience goes. Happy travels.

Thanks much.

Originally Posted by becky7474

Originally Posted by theblues

My wife and I are planning on learning as much Spanish as we can before moving. We'll start this winter, probably with something like Rosetta Stone. We intend to use it as much as we can, between ourselves, so that we have some skill level when we arrive. I've already read about driving at night. I don't care much for night driving anymore, even around here, so that won't be an issue for me. Both of us have lived abroad, the wife in Germany as a kid (Army brat) and me in the Philippines. Different cultures but still good experience.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your report on your travels.

I use Rocket Spanish online and it has been useful. I had 2 years of spanish in college so it was not new to me. I lived in Germany also and have two sisters born there.

you might want to take a look at www.hablayapanama.com

I still personally do not see any single real benefit to buying Vs renting in Panama. In the US, there are tax advantages. But otherwise, the only reason I can see to buy Vs is control over the property... but really, is it worth tying up so much capital? What else could that same money be doing for you?

Originally Posted by CerebralPrimate

I still personally do not see any single real benefit to buying Vs renting in Panama. In the US, there are tax advantages. But otherwise, the only reason I can see to buy Vs is control over the property... but really, is it worth tying up so much capital? What else could that same money be doing for you?

Yes i agree with you. Usually theres either the tax benefits, or the chance that the value of yr property increases. Both are not the case in panama, it seems.

Thanks for the info Jimmy. We hope to be at least reasonably conversant in Spanish before we make our move.

But back to my original question, does anyone have any opinions of what the immediate future for expats will be in Panama?

Originally Posted by jimmy

you might want to take a look at www.hablayapanama.com

I think that ex-pats with a secured income are great for Panama and so will continue to be welcomed. I predict small declines in most Panama real-estate values over the next few years (but I'm no expert). You might also look at Ecuador if lower prices are important to you.

Originally Posted by theblues

My wife and I are planning to retire in 3-4 years and have been exploring many options. Right now Panama is at the top of our list. Our situation will be such that we should be able to move there, pay for a house outright and have a monthly income of approximately $1,800 the first year and $2,100 a year or so later when my wife's Social Security starts. Our research indicates that we should be able to live modestly, but comfortably, especially in the interior which would prefer anyway.

I've read some information that said that while the real estate bubble hasn't burst yet in Panama, that the trickle down from the US recession will hit and real estate could fall by anywhere from 50 to 80%. That the developers have overbuilt, particularly the condos, and many planned developments are now either on hold or being canceled.

I'm curious to hear the opinions of those of you already living in Panama as to what you think the situation will be in 3 or 4 years. I know that's not easy, and would be pure speculation on your part, but all the same I would like to hear what you have to say on the subject.

Thanks,

Al

Don't expect the real estate prices to fall 50-80%. The reason is the rich people coming from Venezuela.And they will continue coming as long as Chavez is in power.
And don't forget that many multinational companies are moving their latin american headquarters to Panama, therefore a high rental demand.
I expect the condo prices in PC to fall a little more but not 50-80% that you expect.

I agree that Chavez is doing wonders for Panama's real estate glut. The big variable is the U.S. the stock market is going to crash to the 5000-6000 level and wipe aout allot of wealth and pension funds are broke. People who have plans to retire in the next 3-5 years maybe in for a shock. Hate be so gloom but thats my honest take on it. Panama may see prices fall more than expected should this occur.

Originally Posted by HOSEM1

Don't expect the real estate prices to fall 50-80%. The reason is the rich people coming from Venezuela.And they will continue coming as long as Chavez is in power.
And don't forget that many multinational companies are moving their latin american headquarters to Panama, therefore a high rental demand.
I expect the condo prices in PC to fall a little more but not 50-80% that you expect.

I wasn't aware that so many Venezuelans were moving there. Good to know. The 50-80% drop was something I had read but it seemed overly optimistic to me. We'll be looking to live in the interior and from what I've read they expect prices to hold or maybe drop slightly. I hate condo life and have no desire to live in a city, big or small.

Originally Posted by fleeted

I agree that Chavez is doing wonders for Panama's real estate glut. The big variable is the U.S. the stock market is going to crash to the 5000-6000 level and wipe aout allot of wealth and pension funds are broke. People who have plans to retire in the next 3-5 years maybe in for a shock. Hate be so gloom but thats my honest take on it. Panama may see prices fall more than expected should this occur.

A lot will depend on what happens with the November elections. Should the Republicans regain control of Congress, or at least the House, I expect they will bring BOs out of control spending to a fast halt. Most of our retirement income will come from the sale of our house and property. Not much is tied to the stock market. Fortunately we live in an area that is still very desirable and hasn't been hit too hard by the fall in real estate prices.

hi everyone , i got this website off either this website or one of the many i visit most everyday , not saying he is right or wrong but it is a interesting read and if he is right just hope you live somewhere that you own , and is warm enough to grow your own food , (garden plots for rent LOL ) The Economic Collapse

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

hi everyone , i got this website off either this website or one of the many i visit most everyday , not saying he is right or wrong but it is a interesting read and if he is right just hope you live somewhere that you own , and is warm enough to grow your own food , (garden plots for rent LOL ) The Economic Collapse

I readn that blog all the time. It does not sugar coat sh*t like cnbc and bloomberg do.

Hard to imagine housing prices falling 50% more anywhere... I'd say 20% is quite possible though.

The situation in 3 or 4 years, who knows? Both Castros dead and Chavez ousted? However, market forces will have to prevail at some point and I don't see Panama real estate as a bargain yet.

just remember ,what goes up has to come down , 10 years ago would have thought your $100,000 house was going to be selling in 2006 for $400.000 ? well it can go the other way also , and i think we are about to see that happen , house sales down 27 % in july , more unemployment , the federal reserve buying treasury dept ? and the head of the FR saying everything is getting better , yet he did not even see this last turn down coming , like you can believe him .LOL

The republicans would only start a few more trillion dollar wars which are even more expensive and useless (except to the people who are in a position to siphon some of it off) . The libertarians might do better.

I agree that owning a house in rural panama with a little land to grow lots of fruit is pretty good protection from much of what is coming. Besides the economic issues, terrorists are close to getting nukes, so best not to live in a big city - visit NYC while it is still there :-).

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

just remember ,what goes up has to come down , 10 years ago would have thought your $100,000 house was going to be selling in 2006 for $400.000 ? well it can go the other way also , and i think we are about to see that happen , house sales down 27 % in july , more unemployment , the federal reserve buying treasury dept ? and the head of the FR saying everything is getting better , yet he did not even see this last turn down coming , like you can believe him .LOL

You make excellent points. This time Bernanke sees whats coming and his arrogance and belief in keynsian economics leads him to believe he can inflate us out of it without causing hyperinflation. This is going to end badly folks, the U.S. GDP is collapsing along with jobs and home prices. Defaults at all level are on the rise. More people than ever on food stamps, disability or the govt dole.
Panama is not immune to the sickness of America and Europe. I agree stockin back some food, growing a garden, catching fish and having fruit trees is great. If you want to protect your wealth during this collapse get some gold and I don't mean an ETF. The govt is going to grab all the money it can from wherever it can on the way down. Please see the link below.

The New Auto IRA Is Just Highway Robbery by Ron Holland