Thread: Will I have chances with my budget?

Hi, I would like to know if it's possible to live in Panama with something around 1000euros per month for a family of 3 persons... me, my wife and our 3 years old daughter.

Our plan is to come investing 40000$ in the forest visa program and to rent a small house to live in.

The 1000euros will come from the renting of our house in Italy and from few works that I'll do online for italian customers.


With this very low income we will have to pay the rent of a two bedrooms house, the food, the medical aids, the school for the baby and, at least, the internet connection to make me able to work.

Maybe we could gain up to 1500euro per month but I think that Panama is not cheap enough for me, is this correct?

Btw, we dont need nothing luxury to be happy

According to this website...

Panama Offshore Legal Services

... it is a minimum of $60000, or up to $82000 for the visa.

I really dont like the sound of it myself.

I live in Las Tablas and the rent on my 3 bedroom house is $200 per month. Nice and safe local neighborhood, high-speed internet $35 per month.

Originally Posted by zog

According to this website...

Panama Offshore Legal Services

... it is a minimum of $60000, or up to $82000 for the visa.

I really dont like the sound of it myself.

The initial investment is not the main problem, 60000$ is just 42000€ and could be affordable for us... the main problem is living there with such a low income (1000-15000€).

Originally Posted by MRWOOHOO

I live in Las Tablas and the rent on my 3 bedroom house is $200 per month. Nice and safe local neighborhood, high-speed internet $35 per month.

Your house is exactly what i was looking for, large and cheap enough. In this way i will save something like a bit more than 800€ to pay medical aids, food and the school for our daughter. Is this possible?



Can you guys explain to me which is the average price for a medical aids and for a school?

Thank you very much!!!

Panama guide has an article on health insurance...

http://www.panama-guide.com/article....40922145544306

Here is a thread about living expenses...

http://www.panamaforum.com/living-pa...es-panama.html (Living expenses in Panama)

If you decide to go make sure you change your euros to dollars through an FX trader - dont use a bank as they do not offer as good a return. You will also need a bank account. I was able to get a bank account with HSBC Panama without actually going to Panama. But different countries might have different rules about that. It cost me about £100 to set up the account. With banking having had such problems recently and all the talk about the end to secrecy in Panama, I would think HSBC a much safer option that other banks given that it is relatively new to Panama and is a global bank that seemed to deal with the banking crisis much better than some of the others.

As for schooling, i do not know about the costs of that.

You can live very cheap in the interior. The Azuero is very inexpensive and there are private schools. My future wife is a teacher here and knows the system. Since you are coming with Euros you should be able to do well with the exchange rate. Public transportation in the interior is amazingly excellent and inexpensive. I also live near the public hospital in Las Tablas. Not sure if I would want open heart surgery there but most general stuff should be ok. Also there is a private hospital in Chitre. What I see as your biggest hurdle is the visa. Don't be surprised if the requirements come down. The economy is starting to get hurt here and much of the Panamanian economy is dependent upon foreigners.

"Don't be surprised if the requirements come down. The economy is starting to get hurt here and much of the Panamanian economy is dependent upon foreigners."

I was thinking the same thing the other day, I hope it all goes back to what it was before the boom, which would make sense... I think you have to put $250,000 in a bank or real estate as well for a visa but with real estate falling in price and no buyers this requirement might have to be lowered as well.

Sure seems cheap to live were you are to get a house for only $200 a month. That same house in Panama city instead of $200 would go for what a month do you think Mr MRWOOHOO?

makes sense what you are doing, wait until the rent and prices crash in Panama city, and get cheap rent while you wait, would be a good strategy for some. Sounds peacfull and quiet also.

When it went to $300k I thought at the time it was unreasonable. It might come down but that depends on someone mentioning it to Martinelli, and convincing him that it needs lowered back down - i would suggest between $200 - $250k

Originally Posted by BEL-AIR

"Don't be surprised if the requirements come down. The economy is starting to get hurt here and much of the Panamanian economy is dependent upon foreigners."

I was thinking the same thing the other day, I hope it all goes back to what it was before the boom, which would make sense... I think you have to put $250,000 in a bank or real estate as well for a visa but with real estate falling in price and no buyers this requirement might have to be lowered as well.

Sure seems cheap to live were you are to get a house for only $200 a month. That same house in Panama city instead of $200 would go for what a month do you think Mr MRWOOHOO?

makes sense what you are doing, wait until the rent and prices crash in Panama city, and get cheap rent while you wait, would be a good strategy for some. Sounds peacfull and quiet also.

If you could actually find a house in downtown Panama City in a "good neighborhood", probably $1500 or more per month. Once again the key is to actually find a house to rent in downtown. Most everything is now condo's. Plus you would be running the risk of getting broken into, you would want razor wire, security guard, etc. The problem now with Panama City and prices crashing, loosing jobs, etc., not sure if you will want to move back into the city. I like the idea of a nice quiet middle-class Panamanian neighborhood. Especially in this area. Nobody is begging for money and everybody seems to have some kind of job.

Thank you all!

I have contacted a law firm but, even if they have interests in making me move there, they suggested that my income is not enough to sustain a 3 persons family with the rent, the medical aids, the school and all the rest... they suggested that 3000dollars per month could be a more reasonable income to live well in Panama.

Panama is very actractive but seems not affordable for me, at least not in this moment.

I will try to find a solution to move there with a better income.

Many thanks to all of you and enjoy your beautiful land while I'm dreaming it

$3000/month - Maybe they were thinking Panama City?

or those lawyers are so used to living on that sort of money that they cannot imagine living on less?

Exactly, $3000 per month puts you on the top of the food chain in Panama. In the interior you would live like a king on that kind of money. I can quite literally hire a live-in maid for $100 per month.

For exodus, 1000euro ~ $1400 might be a little tight but when you say you can get a rental for $200 then it would seem to me to be viable. With 1500euro he would be fine and his family would have a nice enough life.

My concern would be that visa. Not sure about it at all. Does a company look after the reforestation and treat it like an investment with shares in the company? Or does he have to go tree planting and lumberjacking himself? If a company, then he would be susceptible to company failure, or fraud. Or if he buys the land and plants the trees and then leaves it, then its expensive for a visa. Just not sure how that visa would work - though I admit its a nice idea for reforestation of areas that have lost it.

It's a company taking care of your investment. And the worst thing is once you sell your parcel of land ,you lose your visa(according to the new law).

So, would exodus derive some income per annum from the company, or would he have to wait until his specific portion of land had trees mature enough to be cut down for sale? I guess, if he got a reputable company, and they gave him a good share of the profits, it would not be so bad as a visa - and as a long term investment.

Personally ,I like the $300k solvencia economica visa.I would invest the major part in real estate but not now, because I believe real estate prices will drop significantly in the next 12 months. I will personally apply for this visa as soon as they modify the law to let's say $200k or $250k(which I believe will happen).
I wouldn't go for the $80k reforestration visa, because you have no control over it.There is the possibility that you may even lose it entirely,who knows.

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------

As far as to your question if you would get an annual income from your investment, the answer is no.

Yes, i liked that visa myself - but when it was at $200k

if you are willing to live "the panamanian style", which means a lot of rice and fish, no car, no aircon etc, it is definitely doable. but with this budget you wont have private schools, hot water showers, satellite tv... if you can live without that and you move to a more rural area like soná (veraguas) panama for sure could be a great choice. there are always opportunities (if you are smart enough) to earn some extra money, the longer you are here the more ways to do so you can find.
the visa? why dont you try to do it the tourist visa way? every three or (depending on your connections) 6 months for a few days to costa rica, than you can use the money instead of putting it in the reforestation visa to set up your own business, and with a little effort, for sure you can earn some good money. emergency treatments in the hospitals are 1 $, schools are for free. okay, we got a house and so we dont have to pay rent, but we live on less than 1500$ here. (ac and hot showers )
good luck- let us know what you gonna do!
mick

Thank you all, guys... regarding Panama i think i have to surrender

Reforestation visa seemed the cheapest way to live there for me but, in this way, my few money would be frozen for too many years without producing any income and I think that the 1000€ from Italy could be enough to make us live but not enough to give to my daughter the same privileges that she actually have... so, in this way, i'm gonna stealing something from her future instead of giving her just a more interesting lifestyle and more oportunities

The plan is still to grow my daughter in a less consumering and more multicultural enviroment but this changement is something that i'm imposing to her cause she is too young to choose about her own future... so i'm also imposing to myself to bring her in a place with good schools, hospitals, few criminality and where our few moneys can also grow a bit in somekind of investment instead of slowly finish while we just mantaine us in a state of neverending holidays.

That's the reason why we stodied a lot of african, south american and indian places cause the objective is still the same... find good people, smiling children not just talking about expensive toys and, if possible, a bit of coast (simplifying a lot)

Everywhere there's a problem, just choose from deseases, criminality, wars, too expensive visas, too expensive cost of living or a combination of these factors.

The only thing i know is that life is possible even here, Italy lacks of nothing but living here is actually meaning not living... seriously it seems like in the matrix movie, people are cultivated to become brainless gears of the economy and the system reachs perfectly its objective... people are very happy to consume 3 times the resources of the planet trying to fill the sense of emtyness they feel.

We tried johannesbourg cause I found a job for IBM but the criminality was too much, no way to grow a daughter in a place where your home seems a jail with armed guard, electric fences and high walls closing out the horizon.

We tried Mauritius but the burocracy, the visa, the rules and the cost of living was not the best around.

We are looking at Bali, great lifestyle and great investment oportunities... and great risk of terrorist attacks, the last was few days ago in Jakarta

Most of the other places are simply too expensive, our budget is just around 80000€ but we would like to save a big part of it.

I really dont know where to go but i dont have too much time to take a decision cause my daughter is growing fast and tomorrow will be to late to leave without causing her a traumatic experience.

How about the Philippines? The people that are here in the Uk are always so well mannered and polite. Many of them are nurses and they are very good. So probably the result of a decent education system. And its got to be a cheap place to live. 1000 euro would go a very long way there i would think.

In the Philippines seems there are lot's of tensions caused by Abu Sayyaf, leader of an extremist group considered near to Al Qaeda... recently an italian operator of the Red Cross have been freed after six months of sequestration so it's maybe not the best place to go in this moment

It's really a shame cause i could even buy my own island there

Just to state I am not aware of the specifics but from what I have read India is a absolute bargain, it is an emerging economy, and has some very very safe areas. I would do much research of course but it has interested me in the past. Thailand currently seems to unstable and it seems as though many expats are looking at leaving.

Good call on India. Dont know why I didnt think of it myself. I have a friend who takes a few thousand pounds and lives out there for half a year. So it would certainly be a possibility. They are a very spiritual people which lends itself to good manners.

There are two big bonuses:

1. Since it was a British Colony, many people do speak English
2. India produces more college graduates per year than any other country in the world so good schooling is available and I would bet it is affordable.

If interested I know of an EXCELLENT non-profit social networking website that you can make friends instantly all over the world including India.

Mr.woohoo, I need that website to start knowing some nice people in Panama,if you don't mind.

That goes for me too

Me too!