zog

I have heard one can live well for about $1000 a month, if you own your own property.

What are living expenses like? I am looking for rough estimates.

How much is cable TV and internet per month?
How much is electricity per month including air conditioning?
How much is food per month?

I was over in Panama for 10 days looking at houses. I own my own property in the UK, but the UK market is rather static at the moment and I feel my property will take a long time to sell.

That leaves me with the option of buying an apartment with my savings, and I know maintenance costs for an apartment per month are about $100. I can rent out my house in the UK and get around $1000 depending on the exchange rate.

I can certainly afford one apartment, and perhaps two. But I was wondering whether two apartments would be a better option. One to rent out and one to live in. If I had two rental incomes coming in, I know I would have more than enough money to live on in Panama City.

But, if a $1000 would give me enough to live on, and provide me with a few nights out a week, I would be happy enough to buy one apartment, and wait for the UK market to improve before buying a house.

I would appreciate if anyone can give me examples of actual living costs.

Many thanks in advance.

J.

cognitive

I have never been in Panama. much less I lived by a month salary there, but from everything I learned here $ 1000 should be enough to live well a month, especially if you don't have to pay a rent . I 've been told that a non-doctor would make 600-800 a month over there and I suppose he/she could afford internet , air conditioning and eating outside a few times a week .

MRWOOHOO

Living in the interior with the locals, $1000/month is huge money. You can afford good private health insurance as well. You can rent a decent house for $200-$400/month. Food is cheap in the places it grows but gets expensive once it hits Panama City or the major food markets in general.

twocents

I never had quite all the responsibilities to worry about as you will moving there solo, but I do know that you will be more than fine on one thousand a month.

I have family down there and when I go, I always stay with them so I dont need to worry about rent and paying for most of the utilities. When I was down there though I did give my aunt something for food and stuff as well as put internet and cable in the house because I needed the internet to work and liked watching cable.

With the incomes combined in the house we were just at one thousand a month and my family lives in the nicer part of the city.

One thousand a month is way more than enough.

MultiVista

That`s an intersting question.
I`ve heard electricity is very expensive
because the Utilities of Panama use oil to produce electricity??

Is it cheaper than in Europa or US?
How much we have to pay
f.e. for a 4 rooms-Flat ?

Cheers
Mike

soltero

Apartment maintenance fees average $1 per square meter -- but it depends on the building (and owners' association).

Electricity in Panama comes from 50% hydro and 50% diesel.

Electricity is cheap up to 500Kwh/month, because the government provides subsidies. In addition, if you have jubilado status, you get a 25% discount on usage up to 600Kwh/month. But as soon as you go over those limits, it's expensive. E.g., one month when I used 480Kwh, my bill was $13. When I used $650Kwh, my bill was $96. The biggest factor as to whether you'll hit the limits is, by far, AC. For most ex-pats I know in Panama City, $100-150/month seems to be a reasonable amount to budget. But I know some who spend less, and some who spend much more. And if you live in the mountains where the weather is much cooler, you'll spend less.

whypanama

Hi!
We live very comfortably on $1200 a month for 2 people. My husband gets social security only. I am not eligible for social security yet.

We own our own home and vehicles.

My bills run:
Electricity: $70-90/month (no air conditioning and we have a large pool)
Water: $6/month
Gas: $15/month (cooking, dryer and hot water)
Internet: $47/month (high speed satellite)
DirecTV: $47/month (132 English speaking channels - no movies)
Cell Phones: $40/month (425 minutes) + $10/month (card for 2nd phone)

Balance is for food and going out.

Other expenses:
Car Insurance $165/year (minimum coverage for each vehicle).

Mary
whypanama.com

soltero

That's very good info, but in your list you have not included:
> medical insurance
> doctors, dentists, and prescriptions
> home insurance
> travel (airfare, hotels, car rental, etc.)
> taxes

You said the balance (approx $930/month) is for "food and going out." If we say (and this is just *my* guess for two people) that groceries and dining out run $500/month, that leaves approx $430/month. Is that enough for the other items I listed? Or do you not buy the things in my list?

Please understand, I am not trying to argue -- I have no doubt that you do live very comfortably. I'm just trying to clarify that what's comfortable for one person may not work for another. E.g., I want to make a couple big trips every year, and that creates a pretty huge line item in my annual budget. :-)

whypanama

Hi!
Good points.

We don't have medical insurance except Matt's social security and pay as we go. The doctor runs us about $25 plus the blood work of $40 every 4-6 months to verify his medications. His medications compared to the states are next to nothing, plus we are proud to say he is no longer on blood pressure medicine or lipitor after living here for 3 years and he is down 1/3 on his diabetes medications. This was handled by a doctor in PANAMA and verified by our doctor in Chicago.

When the hospital is completed in Coronado we will get the catostrophic insurance at around $100/month for the both of us.

Home insurance runs around $100/year for coverage - fire in a cinder block home with very little wood due to termites.

Travel is minimal. Panama is our home and we have found paradise! I am going to the states next month and my round trip ticket to NEBRASKA was $450. The 6 kids can see us if they want a vacation from the snow and cold in Chicago, Washington DC or Omaha! We have internet, 800 number in the states that is transfered to my cell phone, and the videocam. We talk and "see" more of our kids that we are here then when we were in the states--they all have kids and with that comes sports and time, let alone extra money with the economy in the U.S.

Taxes aren't relevant because we are pensionado and had our home built and fall under the 20 year no taxes.

Mary

soltero

Thanks -- your answers make sense, all around.
But, for the newbies, a couple of points about paradise: <g>

1) It does make sense to keep Medicare coverage, but it doesn't work in Panama; it's only useful for unfortunate events in the US. (Btw, this seems to be a common reason that ex-pats leave Panama: Medical care that they need is unavailable in Panama, or not covered by their Panama health insurance. I'm not saying it *will* happen, but it *can* happen.)

2) Home insurance is most important, imho, not for fire but for theft-of-contents coverage. In Panama City, for my apartment, I pay $263/year for the complete homeowner's package.

3) Travel costs can be minimal, especially if you have family/friends to stay with wherever you go, and if you can avoid eating in restaurants. I don't/can't, so, e.g., I usually budget $2K for a 10-day trip to the US. For an upcoming trip 2-week to LA & SF, where hotels are expensive, it will be more like $3K. More still if I take a Panamanian friend. :-)

4) Taxes *are* relevant as long as you are a US citizen and have any income from the US: interest, dividends, *and* Social Security. Even if you become a Panamanian citizen (difficult), you cannot escape US taxes. :-(

GeekZ

Are we refering to USD or Panama'n money here?

GordonS

? Not sure of what you mean since the Panamanian currency is the $US.
Please clarify your question.

__________________
Gordon and Randy,
Canada

soltero

Technically, the currency in Panama is the Balboa, but Panama stopped printing its own paper money in 1941. The exchange rate to the US dollar has been 1:1 since 1903.

jacktay

I have heard that in the interior life is much cheaper.

GeekZ

Who prints the balboa then? I know this probobly belongs in a different thread but I'm just curious.

abhishek_513

if you live in a posh area i think you would need a bit more than that...but if you live a normal life you might not need that much money...

Joannie

If you give up your Medicare and purchase health insurance in Panama is it expensive? Do they look at pre-existing conditions? Is your premium based on your health? Do they give you a physical?

We a looking at a move there, but I have some medical problems. Nothing too serious, slightly high blood pressure and overweight.

Thanks in advance for answering all my questions!!

soltero

The paper money in circulation in Panama is US dollars -- identical to the paper money in the US. Panama does have its own coins (in denominations of .01, .05, .10, .25, .50, and 1.00) with its own images; they are minted in the US and are identical to US coins in size and weight. Coins you'll find in circulation in Panama are a mix of US coins (e.g., a George Washington quarter) and Panamanian (e.g. a Vasco Nuñez Balboa quarter). No one in Panama cares if you pay them with a US coin or a Panamanian coin; they are completely interchangeable.

soltero

Medical insurance: What's "expensive"? Insurance here is more expensive than Mexico, less than the US. Depends entirely on the kind of coverage you want, your age, pre-existing conditions, etc. I'm paying approximately 1/4 of what I paid in the US, for the same coverage.

All companies will require a medical exam in Panama to initiate coverage (and you will pay for that; a little over $100). All providers that I know of have age limits for writing the first policy -- some as low as 66 years, some at 70 or 72. Once you've covered they will not kick you out, but it can be a problem for older ex-pats looking to get coverage.

Also, be careful about cancelling Medicare. Even though it is useless in Panama, you'll want it if you ever have to return to the US -- maybe because some procedure you need is not covered or not available in Panama. I have also heard that you do want to opt for (and keep) the "B" portion of Medicare -- something about available coverage should you return to the US. There was some discussion of this on one of the Yahoo forums, but I've forgotten the specifics. There is one Yahoo Group specific to healthcare: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/expathealth/

GeekZ

Another thing, what are taxes like in panama?

MultiVista

Whypanama wrote:
"My bills run: Electricity: $70-90/month
(no air conditioning and we have a large pool)
Gas: $15/month (cooking, dryer and hot water)"

THX!
2 questions about it:
Gas...
Prices are comimhg up worldwide
I think 15 US$ seems relative cheap?

And the othe point is:
NO Aircondition?
But if so, electricity will cost m u c h (?) more than 70 - 90 US$?

Saludos
Mike, still living in Frankfurt