Thread: Your experience in obtaining residency in Panama

Originally Posted by tompoker

" I just never saw the need to go through all the rigmarole to become a resident,"

I want to be a resident because of my own reasons your situation suits you, however I need the residency

I was merely speaking about why I never tried for residency I was not saying no one else should because I really don't care what anyone else does so my comment was not directed at anyone, just stating why I have been a permanent tourist for so long.

Originally Posted by veedub3

I was merely speaking about why I never tried for residency I was not saying no one else should because I really don't care what anyone else does so my comment was not directed at anyone, just stating why I have been a permanent tourist for so long.

same here just stating the situation that suits me

No offence intended each way im sure

A second passport can be a very valuable asset if maximum options are desired.

My two sons and myself went through the "person of means" immigrant visa program and it took two years and eight months before we had a cedula in our hands. The resolutions granting final approval of our residency sat unsigned in our files for almost a year until another government minister pushed on our behalf and within a week we had the resolution in our hands. Unless you attorney is well connected to people in immigration it takes a long time. During the 2 years and eight months we spend countless trips to immigration getting the 3 months temporary carnets and at one time we got a one year carnet then back to the 3 month carnets.

Citizenship in Panama is a seven to eight year process unless you marry a Panamanian and use that on a faster tract. In LATAM Uruguay and Dominican Republic has a much better fast track program as well as a couple less attractive programs left open in the Caribbean.

Originally Posted by tompoker

I have done a lot of research on the net, I did see that it was 200k then upto 300k however I have never seen that you had to keep it in the account for ever,not doubting you but upto date info is always hard to find... I read that after 5 years you can apply for your citizenship would I still need to keep the CD.
My lawyer said that he would let me know this week what my options are.

Thanks for the replys

I think the requirement is only that you keep the CD until you receive the signed resolution granting residency and your cedula. The five year count towards citizenship doesn't start until you receive your cedula. The five year residency and ultimate citizenship is more like a seven to eight year journey through hell. It can be expedited by a attorney with connections inside immigration that can move your file along but if your attorney is not so connected you will wait a long long long time before you ever even see your cedula let alone citizenship.

I think the government is currently trying to improve the process at immigration but right now the agency receives applications but doesn't act upon them until someone (up the ladder or in a position to act) demands or requests that they do. Do not engage an unconnected attorney and make sure the majority of their fee is paid when you receive your cedula. For other immigration matters there are always several helpfull "assistants" available within the immigration facilities that have connections and knowledge that is very usefull to you or even to the attorneys that may be assisting you. They seem to posess the ability to get things done in 30 minutes that you may spend days trying to do. Their fees (and services) are reasonable and well worth considering in your adventure.These "assistants" know more about immigration requirements and procedures than most attorneys as they work in the shadows of immigration full time assisting (mostly) the attorneys.

Thank you viewpoint, first hand information exacly what I was looking for.

My lawyer has said he does no somebody in the immigration office so I am awaiting his reply, i'm a couple of months in with him, however still have not had much in the way of whats best for me.
I want the residency, but I will not be living in Panama, however a cedula is what I need, don't want to be in a situation that I have to come just to get my 3 month renewal all the time

Originally Posted by tompoker

Thank you viewpoint, first hand information exacly what I was looking for.

My lawyer has said he does no somebody in the immigration office so I am awaiting his reply, i'm a couple of months in with him, however still have not had much in the way of whats best for me.
I want the residency, but I will not be living in Panama, however a cedula is what I need, don't want to be in a situation that I have to come just to get my 3 month renewal all the time

I don't know if things have changed much at immigration in the last six months but I doubt it. You face many trips to immigration to renew carnets every three months. It will be very frustrating and time consuming. Once you get the one year carnet you will get a break until that expires and you go back to the three month routine. Filling out the application and obtaining the supporting documents including the bank CD is the easy part. You will find that immigration is very good at "receiving" applications but they haven't mastered the art of "processing" the applications that they receive so in the meantime 8-10 trips for carnets will be the drill unless your attorney "really" has a contact at immigration that can advance the process and not just an exboyfriend or girlfriend that they used to know. Use the "assistants" as they can get things done.

PREPARE for the worse and PRAY for the best but push for results every day as the squeeky wheel gets the results (or gets greased). LOL

Things happen in Panama when there is an incentive (to all participates to the process) for them to happen.

When you say supporting documents will they be the documents that I have to get notorized if so they have to be valid in a 3 month period.

I know all about how Panama loves its paperwork, I am also aware about greasing that wheel, my concern now is how well my lawyer knows somebody in immigration, like you say gotta make sure he really knows them and not an old chica

Originally Posted by Viewpoint

I don't know if things have changed much at immigration in the last six months but I doubt it. You face many trips to immigration to renew carnets every three months. It will be very frustrating and time consuming. Once you get the one year carnet you will get a break until that expires and you go back to the three month routine. Filling out the application and obtaining the supporting documents including the bank CD is the easy part. You will find that immigration is very good at "receiving" applications but they haven't mastered the art of "processing" the applications that they receive so in the meantime 8-10 trips for carnets will be the drill unless your attorney "really" has a contact at immigration that can advance the process and not just an exboyfriend or girlfriend that they used to know. Use the "assistants" as they can get things done.

PREPARE for the worse and PRAY for the best but push for results every day as the squeeky wheel gets the results (or gets greased). LOL

Things happen in Panama when there is an incentive (to all participates to the process) for them to happen.

Do you care to recommend to us your immigration lawyer or law firm?

so my lawyer got back to me yesterday with an update on my visa application.
For person of means we need 300k CD or property, proof of income enough to support me as well as the usual easy to obtain documents, nothing differnt than what I have read on the net.

Big desicion to make now....My biggest concern is the 300CD lot of dough!!
He has assured me he knows somebody and the application will be fast?? hopefully not Panama fast(shouldnt joke really big step)
Keep you posted on this

Originally Posted by tompoker

so my lawyer got back to me yesterday with an update on my visa application.
For person of means we need 300k CD or property, proof of income enough to support me as well as the usual easy to obtain documents, nothing differnt than what I have read on the net.

Big desicion to make now....My biggest concern is the 300CD lot of dough!!
He has assured me he knows somebody and the application will be fast?? hopefully not Panama fast(shouldnt joke really big step)
Keep you posted on this

Remember, for the "fast and furious" citizenship is "for sale" in other countries without any residency requirement, namely, Dominica (not Dominican Republic) and Saint Christopher & Nevis (aka St. Kitts & Nevis).

The last information I had was that Dominica citizenship was available to a single individual for a $75,000 investment in specific public and private sector projects. An "investment" of $100,000 covers a family of up to four persons. Application fees are extra, but mostly refundable if the citizenship application is rejected.

I got my residency via "married to a panamena". Took over 3 years for the whole process to get a cedula. 1 year of 3 month temporary carnets, 1 year provisional residency, then another year of 3 month carnets. Also had to do the work permit performance which meant even more trips across town and another set of monkeys to deal with. Shelling out $40 bucks every 3 months on top of the immigration/min de trabajo costs for driving licence renewal added insult to injury. Still.......... at least I got a few years off now, till the cedula renewal.

Rik

Originally Posted by Viewpoint

My two sons and myself went through the "person of means" immigrant visa program and it took two years and eight months before we had a cedula in our hands. The resolutions granting final approval of our residency sat unsigned in our files for almost a year until another government minister pushed on our behalf and within a week we had the resolution in our hands. Unless you attorney is well connected to people in immigration it takes a long time. During the 2 years and eight months we spend countless trips to immigration getting the 3 months temporary carnets and at one time we got a one year carnet then back to the 3 month carnets.

Citizenship in Panama is a seven to eight year process unless you marry a Panamanian and use that on a faster tract. In LATAM Uruguay and Dominican Republic has a much better fast track program as well as a couple less attractive programs left open in the Caribbean.

Make question for all of you is... When I become married to a Panamanian and go to buy a house. Will the banks treat me as a Panamanian citizen? Will I get the 90-95% finance rate?

Tom - My daughter also will be investing 300k in a CD for a residency visa. We have yet to find a lawyer and would love any recommendations - on lawyers and the process in general.
So, even after depositing 300k in a CD you have to show proof of adequate income? Is the interest generated from the CD adequate proof? Any advice would be appreciated!
Pam

Originally Posted by Viewpoint

My two sons and myself went through the "person of means" immigrant visa program and it took two years and eight months before we had a cedula in our hands. The resolutions granting final approval of our residency sat unsigned in our files for almost a year until another government minister pushed on our behalf and within a week we had the resolution in our hands. Unless you attorney is well connected to people in immigration it takes a long time. During the 2 years and eight months we spend countless trips to immigration getting the 3 months temporary carnets and at one time we got a one year carnet then back to the 3 month carnets.

Citizenship in Panama is a seven to eight year process unless you marry a Panamanian and use that on a faster tract. In LATAM Uruguay and Dominican Republic has a much better fast track program as well as a couple less attractive programs left open in the Caribbean.

just to clear this up a little , the person of means visa is a 2 yr program , there is a waiting period of 2 yrs before you get your cedula , in the mean time you get temp cards, you do not get carnets , carnets are what you get when you get the pension visa and maybe others , so with Viewpoint waiting 2 yr s and 8 months he really only was 8 months pass due , mine was 3 months pass due , just the way things work in panama , i also got a 1 yr temp the first time and then went to the 3 month cards , gives you a chance to go to the city and shop every 3 months if you live elsewhere in the country LOL

Originally Posted by pam

Tom - My daughter also will be investing 300k in a CD for a residency visa. We have yet to find a lawyer and would love any recommendations - on lawyers and the process in general.
So, even after depositing 300k in a CD you have to show proof of adequate income? Is the interest generated from the CD adequate proof? Any advice would be appreciated!
Pam

i was never asked about income as the visa is a person of means , which means you have the money to support yourself , know if you go for the pension visa you need to prove , but they never asked me on my means visa ,

As long as this thread seems to have drifted a bit, I guess I'll chime in. I'm retired and live on a 40' sail boat currently at Holden beach, NC and am thinking about relocating to Panama. I haven't been able to get any clear information on whether it's possible to gain pensionado status and live on a yacht or about whether import duty would apply on the boat since it is my home. Any help here?

Well Hello

My husband and I recently just did the bus ride to Costa Rica tourist thing and wrote about it extensively at my blog xpat escape

I can tell you now that leaving every six months is by far one of the least expensive and exciting alternatives. In our case, we love to travel, and the lifestyle here in Panama allows it.

You may not have some of the benefits of having a cedula (like the ease of obtaining a cell phone with a monthly contract) but I don't think its worth the 300k investment to receive the extra "benefits".

If you have the money to invest and want (or need) the residency, make sure its a good investment, which there are plenty of them around. Look outside the expat communities for best deals. Especially if you are interested in larger parcels of land. There was 40 hectares for sale recently here for $60,000. Of course, it was over a $100k if you were an American who didn't speak English asking.

Not sure what your situation is but if you are looking for a cheaper alternative to a residency visa outside of the states, you may want to look at somewhere like Guatemala for cheaper alternatives. Living as a tourist in Panama would still be possible.

MM (xpat escape)

Originally Posted by pam

Tom - My daughter also will be investing 300k in a CD for a residency visa. We have yet to find a lawyer and would love any recommendations - on lawyers and the process in general.
So, even after depositing 300k in a CD you have to show proof of adequate income? Is the interest generated from the CD adequate proof? Any advice would be appreciated!
Pam

I also wanted to know if the interest on the CD could be used for income, I have sent an email to my lawyer asking this question probally get a response nxt week

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

i was never asked about income as the visa is a person of means , which means you have the money to support yourself , know if you go for the pension visa you need to prove , but they never asked me on my means visa ,

Interesting that you did not need to show income, how long ago was your application.
I looked into the pension visa , however the income had to be a regular income for life.

Originally Posted by tompoker

Interesting that you did not need to show income, how long ago was your application.
I looked into the pension visa , however the income had to be a regular income for life.

hi tom , i am talking about the person of means or self solvency visa , you are talking about the pension visa , with the pension visa you need to prove a pension for life , that is why the income question , with the self solvency visa you need to deposit 300 g , they know you can feed yourself

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

hi tom , i am talking about the person of means or self solvency visa , you are talking about the pension visa , with the pension visa you need to prove a pension for life , that is why the income question , with the self solvency visa you need to deposit 300 g , they know you can feed yourself

Yes I am also talking about the self solvency, apparently the 300k interest does not get used as an income. That was a point I raised with current interest rate of about 4 % should be a 1000k a month, however I still need to prove an income.

After all the research I have done on the net it is difficult to get an answer as to how much income as well as the interest I need to prove

A POM Visa has no income requirement attached to it. It's the Jubliado Visa that does.

Originally Posted by tompoker

Yes I am also talking about the self solvency, apparently the 300k interest does not get used as an income. That was a point I raised with current interest rate of about 4 % should be a 1000k a month, however I still need to prove an income.

After all the research I have done on the net it is difficult to get an answer as to how much income as well as the interest I need to prove

hi topm , you might want to talk to a different lawyer , not all of them were in the top of their class LOL , good to get a second option , but i know they never asked me and i just phoned a friend and they never asked them about income , also as far as interest paid you might want to look at Credit Unions

Originally Posted by becky7474

A POM Visa has no income requirement attached to it. It's the Jubliado Visa that does.

This is correct. POM has no income requirement, just the CD.
By the way, POM will not longer get a "Cedula". Now you get a "Carne de Residente Permanente". This "carne" is different to the one you get at the immigration office. It is given by "Tribunal Electoral" which is the same place that makes the "cedulas".

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

hi topm , you might want to talk to a different lawyer , not all of them were in the top of their class LOL , good to get a second option , but i know they never asked me and i just phoned a friend and they never asked them about income , also as far as interest paid you might want to look at Credit Unions

I have read that the credit unions offer a higher interest rate but have been advised to steer clear of them. My daughter will be investing the 300k for the POM visa and of course wants the highest interest rate but also wants a stable, reputable bank. Any advise on which banks you recommend?
Thanks,
Pam

Thanks for the replys.

Somewhere on here somebodt wrote about Credit unions .
When I deposit 300k I think I will use 3 diffrent accts eggs in 1 basket and all that

Originally Posted by pam

I have read that the credit unions offer a higher interest rate but have been advised to steer clear of them. My daughter will be investing the 300k for the POM visa and of course wants the highest interest rate but also wants a stable, reputable bank. Any advise on which banks you recommend?
Thanks,
Pam

Look at another thread I posted ( current interest rates on cd ) nakedguy posted very good response on Credit unions

TomP, Yes I read that thread and was encouraged by what NakedGuy posted but was then told by others that the safety and security of credit unions are questionable. I also haven't been successful finding a credit union listed in banks available in Panama. Do you know of any and what their rates are? I would love to hear of others who have invested their money in a credit union. I appreciate all the advise I get in this forum and am very glad to have found it but sometimes it is confusing when the answers are so conflicting.
Thanks,
Pam

Hi everyone,

I wonder if you could tell me the "average" time it takes to receive your permanent permission of residency.

An approximation of what I should expect to pay a lawyer to get me this.

When you receive your I.D. for one year, will that allow me to use pensioner discounts or do I have to wait until I get the permanent residency?

Thank you for your help.

Kathy