Thread: Response to ******** ******

******** ******,

In response to your threats and allegations (Panama Scammers):

I discovered today the website: PANAMFORUM.COM -

It's actually PanamaForum.com.

PanamaForum.com is a discussion forum that is open to members from around the world. It is known as "Panama's online club for visitors, investors, expats and retirees", and has 3,900+ members and 18,000+ posts. The forum has been online since November 2006.

which illegally posted my name

A member of our forum posted several emails you allegedly sent back in 2008. In those emails, if read in context with the entire discussion, you appeared to pacify and/or mislead concerned investors about certain real estate projects in Panama that later turned out to be scams, including The Plaza Project Corporation, A2SN Development, Inc., and/or the Plaza Obarrio project.

In your letter to our domain registration company, dated August 9, 2010, you did not provide any evidence

1. that the member violated any laws in posting these emails, and
   
   
2. that PanamaForum.com violated any laws in passively (i.e. in accordance with the nature of a discussion forum) allowing these emails to be posted.

In fact, it is duly noted that you did not deny having written and/or sent the emails in question.

Instead, you tried to intimidate the domain registration company by the intentional or unintentional use of misdirection, by coming up with false and easily disproved allegations, and by engaging in apparently accurate (but irrelevant) self-disclosure:

and comments fraudulently posted by an impostor.

We could not find any posts or comments by anyone claiming to be you. Please point us to such posts or comments and if you assert that these posts were not made by you we will gladly remove them.

We do not have any affiliation with the named real estate projects in Panama

We could not find any allegations that you had any affiliation with the named real estate projects in Panama as of the date of your letter, August 9, 2010. Please point us to any posts or comments that allege your involvement with said projects as of August 9, 2010, and if you deny such involvement we will gladly remove or amend these posts.

and I have not posted on that website….

Your statement is just as accurate as it is irrelevant, simply because nobody claimed that you did post on that website.

Before taking any further action, we invite you to provide more information to our community of concerned Panama expats and investors. You are welcome to post or email a response to any allegations about your involvement (or lack thereof) with the named real estate scams in Panama.

All we know so far from your own statements is...

• that you claimed that as of this past Monday, August 9, 2010, you were not affiliated with the projects in question, and
  
  
• that you did not deny having written and/or sent the emails in question.

Sincerely,

Frances Devon
Administrator
PanamaForum.com

Excellent response.

If required, I am able to forward numerous original emails to PanamaForum.com that were received from ******** ****** in 2008 concerning her representation of The Plaza Obarrio. I have so far only posted some of them. I know of at least two other people who can also do so. I also have emails from Elenora Michailov referring to Ms ****** as the legal representative of The Plaza Obarrio.

Dear Frances

Thank you for your reply - it is unsatisfactory in every respect.

You have also posted your reply email on your website - it is unprofessional
and violates my privacy rights, which we will also address in a court of
competent jurisdiction, if needed. You are hiding behind your website hosts
- your site does not provide any physical addresses or telephone and fax
numbers - first indication of bad-faith dealings.

I hereby again demand that you remove my name from your website - you can
keep all posts, if you wish - but my name must be removed.

I do hereby confirm to you that we do NOT have any involvement with the
named real-estate projects - therefore, my name must be removed. Bashing
good lawyers by unsatisfied investors or former partners, hiding behind
anonymous posts, who invested in bad projects in Panama would get you
nowhere, but will get your company to a US Federal Court for sure. If any
of these persons had any legal right to demand a remedy from me personally
for their bad investment decisions in Panama - they would not be hiding
behind your unanimous posting policy. Your site is perpetuating fraud and
slander!

You are allowing fraud to be perpetuated on your website under the guise of
providing information - in fact, you are providing misinformation.

We will pursue all legal means available to us to remove my name from these
fraudulent posts.

Kind regards,
******** ******
_____________________________________
This e-mail message and any attachments hereto are confidential and may be
attorney-client privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please,
notify the sender immediately by telephone at (212)541-3909 or by email to
j******@prodigy.net, and delete all electronic copies of this message and
any attachments hereto from your PC and/or server and destroy all hard
copies hereof, if any.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PanaManagement Corporation
445 Park Avenue, 9th Floor,
New York, NY 10022
Telephone: (212) 541-3909
Facsimile: (212) 541-3907

Panama Office:
World Trade Center, Suite 1505
Panamá City, Republic of Panamá
Telephone: +(507) 269-0060
Facsimile: +(507) 269-0062
Panamá Mobile: +507-6773-2232

Website: http://www.panamanagement.com

International Project Development Group LLC Tel. No.: (516) 869-4997 Fax No:
(516) 684-9836

U.S. Mobile: (516) 313-9176
Email: j******@prodigy.net

**Please consider the environmental impact before printing this e-mail**
**Por favor considere el impacto ambiental antes de imprimir este e-mail**

Originally Posted by PanamaForum.com

Dear Frances

Thank you for your reply - it is unsatisfactory in every respect.

You have also posted your reply email on your website - it is unprofessional
and violates my privacy rights, which we will also address in a court of
competent jurisdiction, if needed. You are hiding behind your website hosts
- your site does not provide any physical addresses or telephone and fax
numbers - first indication of bad-faith dealings.

I hereby again demand that you remove my name from your website - you can
keep all posts, if you wish - but my name must be removed.

I do hereby confirm to you that we do NOT have any involvement with the
named real-estate projects - therefore, my name must be removed. Bashing
good lawyers by unsatisfied investors or former partners, hiding behind
anonymous posts, who invested in bad projects in Panama would get you
nowhere, but will get your company to a US Federal Court for sure. If any
of these persons had any legal right to demand a remedy from me personally
for their bad investment decisions in Panama - they would not be hiding
behind your unanimous posting policy. Your site is perpetuating fraud and
slander!

You are allowing fraud to be perpetuated on your website under the guise of
providing information - in fact, you are providing misinformation.

We will pursue all legal means available to us to remove my name from these
fraudulent posts.

Kind regards,
******** ******
_____________________________________
This e-mail message and any attachments hereto are confidential and may be
attorney-client privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please,
notify the sender immediately by telephone at (212)541-3909 or by email to
j******@prodigy.net, and delete all electronic copies of this message and
any attachments hereto from your PC and/or server and destroy all hard
copies hereof, if any.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PanaManagement Corporation
445 Park Avenue, 9th Floor,
New York, NY 10022
Telephone: (212) 541-3909
Facsimile: (212) 541-3907

Panama Office:
World Trade Center, Suite 1505
Panamá City, Republic of Panamá
Telephone: +(507) 269-0060
Facsimile: +(507) 269-0062
Panamá Mobile: +507-6773-2232

Website: http://www.panamanagement.com

International Project Development Group LLC Tel. No.: (516) 869-4997 Fax No:
(516) 684-9836

U.S. Mobile: (516) 313-9176
Email: j******@prodigy.net

**Please consider the environmental impact before printing this e-mail**
**Por favor considere el impacto ambiental antes de imprimir este e-mail**

******** ******: Get over it bitch. I've had it with your types who can't take responsibility and admit guilt. There are many companies like your own who have no conscience and steer investors the wrong way causing them severe losses, no different than a full service stock broker who are mostly con men. Maybe you were a victim as well of the developer scam or an accomplice? Either way, fess up and stop complaining. Unless you can prove the posts here are fraudulent, then deal with it. Possibly next time you will think twice and perform due diligence before you attach your name to criminal entities.

Dear ********,

So you admit that the emails are real and that you simply want your name removed because the messages you sent don't portray you in an all-too-favorable light? That's completely understandable, and all too human. But do you really think that belittling scammed investors as having made "bad investment decisions" will make you any friends here?

As a lawyer you should know the definition of slander (did you mean libel?). How in the world could quoting your own emails, that you admitted to writing, be construed as slander? As for your past associations, they are public knowledge and were mentioned in the media. Where is the slander? All I can see is hysteria and intimidation, and both are coming from you.

At first this was a conflict between you and a handful of investors. But thanks to your unprovoked attack on our entire community, what was known to only a few people is now known to thousands. Don't you think there is a better way of bringing closure to this matter than threats, lies and intimidation?

If you really are a "good" lawyer (in the sense of "morally excellent, virtuous, righteous" - not "knows how to get her way through yelling and screaming"), then try to help the investors who trusted your judgment, or at least provide them with your side of the story, instead of throwing around big words like "impostor" and "slander" in a futile attempt to shut down our forum, which is not a source of, but just a medium for the voices of discontent.

Nobody claimed that YOU took any money... we know what lawyers are and how they work and that they can't be held responsible for the actions of their clients. But you are acting as if there was a lot more going on than simply a client that turned out to be a bad apple.

As I said before, as a forum operator we will remove any posts that contain inaccurate information, that constitute an attempt of impersonating you, or that falsely claim that you are STILL associated with the scams. So far we haven't found any such posts which is why I repeat my request for you to finally point them out to us.

Beyond that, if you want any information that you admit to be true and accurate to disappear, that is an issue for you and each individual poster to resolve. Please send them a PM on the forum.

Sincerely,

Frances Devon
Administrator
PanamaForum.com

I wish you the best of luck, Frances. In my experience, emotional people are rarely, if ever, calmed by sound/logical thinking or presentation of the facts.

Sounds like an ugly situation either way. Glad I wasnt involved.

Is there a Psychiatrist in the thread?

We continue to receive disjointed threats from ********. Now the problem is that she can't find her own post (Panama Scammers) and believes that she is locked out from the forum. Bring it on, Mrs. New Media and IT Lawyer... maybe the FBI can really help you there and teach you how to sign on to a forum. Sigh...

Maybe it is the impostor that is trying to sign in? How do you know that this is the real deal herself?

I see that you are continuing to post ridiculous comments about me. It was foolish of me to post a reply – it was wasted on you and your vengeful investors, although I do feel sorry that their own lawyers did not do any due diligence on these projects and they lost money… There are plenty of reputable projects in Panama….

You obviously do not know what lawyers do and do not understand that we did not have any involvement with any of these projects – we did not represent the promoter, developer or any other party which may have taken your readers money, yet you are allowing my name to be listed in the same sentence with people we do not represent or have any affiliation – you are as guilty as your unscrupulous subscribers….

We will continue diligently to pursue shutting down of your site unless my name is removed from your site completely and does not appear when searched online, including any cached pages. We will wait 24 hours, i.e. until tomorrow 5 pm EST.


******** ******
_____________________________________
This e-mail message and any attachments hereto are confidential and may be
attorney-client privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please,
notify the sender immediately by telephone at (212)541-3909 or by email to
j******@prodigy.net, and delete all electronic copies of this message and
any attachments hereto from your PC and/or server and destroy all hard
copies hereof, if any.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PanaManagement Corporation
445 Park Avenue, 9th Floor,
New York, NY 10022
Telephone: (212) 541-3909
Facsimile: (212) 541-3907

Panama Office:
World Trade Center, Suite 1505
Panamá City, Republic of Panamá
Telephone: +(507) 269-0060
Facsimile: +(507) 269-0062
Panamá Mobile: +507-6773-2232

Website: http://www.panamanagement.com

International Project Development Group LLC
Tel. No.: (516) 869-4997
Fax No: (516) 684-9836

U.S. Mobile: (516) 313-9176
Email: j******@prodigy.net

**Please consider the environmental impact before printing this e-mail**

**Por favor considere el impacto ambiental antes de imprimir este e-mail**

unless my name is removed from your site completely and does not appear when searched online, including any cached pages. We will wait 24 hours, i.e. until tomorrow 5 pm EST.

Question: Who attended a press conference in Bogota with Alex Altshoul and Alexandre Ventura in 2008 and described David Murcia's DMG 'business plan' as excellent and much more sophisticated than Avon?

Answers on a postcard please to Dr Hans Reinisch.

“Se trata de un modelo multinivel como el utilizado por empresas como Avon o Yanbal con un programa por recompensa por puntos. Lo que hizo David Murcia y que nos parece brillante, fue crear un modelo mucho más sofisticado que integró varios productos” dijo XXXXXXX


"XXXXX representante de la firma en Estados Unidos, aseguró que el modelo de David Murcia es un negocio brillante y redondo."

http://www.elespectador.com/articulo...ciondmg?page=1

Attorney XXXXX and her partners that she has no affiliation with .

Socio de DMG, investigado en Panamá por estafa | ELESPECTADOR.COM

I like this bit:

"Agrega la publicación que "Khafif reclama a Ventura Nogueira el pago de 812 mil dólares de ocho contratos que suscribieron del proyecto Loft One".

According to Khafif (Trump Ocean Club developer) he paid Ventura 812,000 dollars for 8 appartments in 'Loft One' that you guessed it were never built. Perhaps he should have had an attorney that did due diligence...

Donald Trump committed fraud in Baja California. Let's see if the Don visits this site and demands that his name be removed. I doubt it. If you roll in Panama you better be able to handle the hostility. It's the wild west here.

I noticed an awful lot of stars these days... and it's not night here.

Wondering why the change???

"we did not represent the promoter, developer or any other party which may have taken your readers money,"

Oh yes you did and it is in the public domain.

The anonymous New York Attorney did not exhibit this kind of energy when she assured Ventura's victims that she would obtain a refund for them. Wonder where all the cash went...?

Interesting, the forum software automatically removes "Juliettte Passser" from any post and replaces with stars. This needs to be documented in case someone wants to use either of these words.

I suggest forwarding a copy of her email to Panama Guide.

...

can someone explain to me why the website folded in and took her name down if this is true material ?

Originally Posted by jonr

Interesting, the forum software automatically removes Juli-ette Passser from any post and replaces with stars.

The New York bar will do the same.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

can someone explain to me why the website folded in and took her name down if this is true material ?

Because in the world of the anonymous New York attorney, if you can't argue the case, then try and silence the opposition with threats and expensive spurious law suits. She has not addressed one allegation with a factual response.

thank you . so if i understand this right julli passser did everything that has been posted and is on record in the publc domain yet and still demand that her name not be printed on the internet ? this does not make sence to me , thanks for the explainsion though .

So, attorney of the "stars", you can't disprove anything that has been posted here and like all guilty people that have no way to prove their innocence, you make threats. When you are listed as the legal representative of fraud artists you are irrevocably tied to them. Maybe, with some due diligence on your part, you wouldn't be in this position but then, of course, you had no interest in honesty.

What a complete and utter waste of skin.

Originally Posted by nakedguydb

thank you . so if i understand this right julli passser did everything that has been posted and is on record in the publc domain yet and still demand that her name not be printed on the internet ? this does not make sence to me , thanks for the explainsion though .

It is a common tactic used by the wealthy to silence critics, threaten them with ruinous law suits that will bankrupt them unless they shut up. She can't shut up googlegroups though.

Still sad to see the site caved to the threats though...

... then again, easy for me to say since it aint my site.

I think there are other sites that are better structured for scam busting. If you know of a scam, I'd use them and perhaps enter a link to them here.

Will do jonr.

Hi all :

Just a thought but maybe we can get lawyers declared a sub-species of the human race !

Our " star person " is beginning to sound like a parrot I once had S.O.S. (stuck on stupid). Just my opinion though.

In Panama as elsewhere the rule of thumb is " caveat emptor ".

Anyone know of any good ambulance chasers in PC that need a job ?? lol

DT

i too am sad to see the stars