Thread: Pensionado visa

Can a Panamanian company or foundation guarantee for a pensionado visa?

Article 201 / 53 reads:

Foreign Government, Foreign Institute or private enterprise

What means private enterprise?

I have contacted multiple lawyers but keep being delayed to actually talk to somebody. The answer to this questions will help me to get started writing up an entity.

Clarification is much appreciated.

I'd also be very ijnterested in this... perhaps No-Nonsense-Matt knows?

I plan on putting some wholly owned real estate into an LLC, then placing ownership of that LLC into another (asset protection 101) and have that LLC issue divdends to me. If I hire a lawyer to assist me, does that mean I could get a pensionado visa at age 40?

If so, that'd be pretty sweet.

Originally Posted by speedy

I have contacted multiple lawyers

I final got in touch with a lawyer. The lengthly conversation with her taking a stand that it has to be a foreign entity ended with her word: "I have to read the law"

Needless to say, that didn't give me a warm and fuzzy.

PS: I also got 2nd hand information from a lawyer that participated in writing the law that a property in a foundation earning rent would qualify.

I know that in the last couple of years immigration has been really researching people that are getting a pension from a corporation. People in the past would do that and show bank statements for 3 months to get the pensionado visa. Now it is much more complicated.

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Mary, thank you for your input. That is what I find out talking to various lawyers. The text of the law says "Private Enterprise", but it seems that a common understanding has settled in with administration and lawyers that interprets that word as "must have worked of a long time for that company and now receive a pension. Kind of Fortune 500 scenarios."

Do you have any details on how it should be done today. I heard of fake methods, which is not what I have in mind. I would even like to set it up in a way that others could use the same entity to "really" comply with all requirements of the law.

Panama has beautiful laws that apply for so many without the need of bending anything, if only made available in a manageable way.

Hi Speedy,

I really have no idea because when we got our pensionado's back in 2002 it was different and easier to get the visa. As soon as my husband was 62 we went to s.s. office and did the paperwork. Even though he wasn't ready to retire, they filled out the paperwork on what he would get if he retired at that date. We had already bought a piece of property where we wanted to build a home. On one of our last trips before we moved down here we went ahead and got our PANAMA driver's license, so when we moved we didn't have to keep running back in the city to do things.

We used Myra Ruzzi and I have been recommending her ever since. All the people that have used her have been real happy with her and I have NOT heard one bad thing said about her from anyone!

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Yes I have to agree. She was referred by a good friend of mine. She has been the most down to earth lawyer for the pensionado and she gave it to me straight. I am not anywhere near SS so I have to be very awake to make this happen. I have a number of contracts with companies that pay me monthly with an established minimum amount, each. Far exceeding the requirements. But unfortunately these contracts don't say pension, even so I would be able to rewrite them with my partners. But that still doesn't make them lifetime. They are for the life of the company with a balloon payment at the end of the companies life, should it ever be sold. Factually, I am exceeding all requirements, except the established thinking has developed a way of looking at it. Basically if it is not a public company, no matter how shaky, it is not acceptable, it seems.

I received my pensionado in 2003 when my husband qualified. I am now a pensionado for life and it can't be revoked if anything happens to him. I didn't qualify since I am not able to collect social security for at least 10 more years. I qualified as a dependent under his income. We have been married for 25 years now and there is 18 years difference between us.

We joke when we started getting serious that since he was going through a mid-life crisis and he wanted a "young chick" I would get to retire when he did. As it got closer to moving down here, he kept asking to make sure I didn't want to continue with my career in Chicago. I told him that there was no way he was going to PANAMA on his own and I stay in Chicago and work (LOL)!!

Mary

Good, you got your priorities straight. It was probably wise that you didn't expose him to the dangers of Panama all by himself. I am sure he appreciates your "sacrifice". lol I have seen how the laws have changed over the years. And you are right, it get's harder every year, making it important to make the move while it is still possible. I feel so bad for Panama for all the lost opportunity with all the people interested but giving up eventually.

If one doesn't fit perfectly into the pattern, it becomes tricky. I found out that the legal fees for an agricultural visa ($60K if still correct) are $20k-$25K and a good risk of being taken to the cleaners as you have to re-qualify for 6 or 7 consecutive years giving a lot of opportunity for officials to have a concern here and there, if you know what I mean. I call it the milk the farmer program.

The Investor visa goes for $160K but you have to hire 5 locals, for a newbie not knowing what that means. Plus, most small businesses can not sustain 5 employees from day one, setting the business up for failure. Not to mention all the administrative pitfalls out there.

The reforestation program is a setup for overpriced land and so complicated that it requires to hire a management company. Plus it ties up a lot of money for a long time, that it might just be better to ask for the money outright. The new 20 ha requirement has now made it so pricey that 80K won't do anymore.

All great programs, but lousy implementation. In todays form, that is. It nearly looks like the Panama Dream is on the verge of extinction?

By the way "Wind chill in Chicago" vs "Panama". Smart choice. lol I used to tape the patio door in Ontario Place to make the wind noise go away.

I know it is getting harder and harder to retire down here.

I know people that did the solvency visa ($300K investment & splitting between the property and banking). The lawyer they used were overcharging them and the 2nd year they went to renew he said there was over $2K in fees to renew--which was totally untrue and I sent them to Mayra. Boy were they pissed when they found this out.

Mary

That is exactly what I am talking about.That's why I would like to find a way to make it more streamlined for people. While I am going through the process, I evaluate every step along the way to see if it could be institutionalized, making it easier for people that don't have the energy but would still love to come.

Very discouraging that they are making harder to get pensionado card. I will be 62 next year and currently work & probably work for another 4-5 years. I suppose I can get the SS statement next year and go to Panama to get my pensionado card. Do you have to live there to keep it active or just visit 2-3 times a year to keep it active until you move there permanently.

Hi!

We got our pensionado cards 2+ years before we moved here. We came down in Feb 2003 and applied for the card--I think we were here for 6 days on vacation that trip because Matt was still working full-time. He went to s.s. office and asked for paperwork stating his s.s. amount if he retired that day and the s.s. office notorized it.

We then left the country for 8 months. Three months after we applied our pensionado cards were ready and our lawyer told us not to worry about rushing back that on our next trip back we could go to immigration for our picture and pick-up the new cards.

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Mutcho Gracias Mary ... [my short vocabulary of spanish ] Thank you so much for your helpful comments .. I will look into this and begin the process early rather than wait ... hmm I need to begin to learn my spanish in earnest now ..

Originally Posted by whypanama

Hi!

We got our pensionado cards 2+ years before we moved here. We came down in Feb 2003 and applied for the card--I think we were here for 6 days on vacation that trip because Matt was still working full-time. He went to s.s. office and asked for paperwork stating his s.s. amount if he retired that day and the s.s. office notorized it.

We then left the country for 8 months. Three months after we applied our pensionado cards were ready and our lawyer told us not to worry about rushing back that on our next trip back we could go to immigration for our picture and pick-up the new cards.

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Hi,

Do you need an attorney to process your pensionado visa paperwork ? After reading your post, even though I wont retire for two years, it would be nice to go ahead and get the visa done. Could I trouble you for the contact information of your attorney ?

Thanks

jimmy

Hi!
It is better to have an attorney that knows all the ins and outs of the legal system here - everything is in Spanish.

I have been recommending Mayra Ruzzi for years and NEVER had anyone complain, just the opposite about how professional and timely she was on everything! Her email is 1crisma@gmail.com and her website is: www.panamalawyermayralamboglia.com

Mary
www.whypanama.com

I'll say it again, this is the best forum I've ever been part of. Everything I need to know is right there at my fingertip, all I have to do is login. Thank you all for your contributions.
So, I'm 56 years old and planing my move to Panama in 3 to 4 years. I have enough money to stay a float till I retired officially at 62. So what advise do you have for me. When should I start my paperwork.

I second your comment elvagabond. Mary has been wonderful in providing info on most topics and she has a website which complements forum discussions.

Thank you Mary. You are very generous with your time and efforts.


Vin

She is a trooper, but did not want to single out anyone in particular. The information received in this forum is priceless. I urge all to keep the good work.

Mary, my husband and I are getting ready to make the jump from the US to Panama. We will be coming down for 3 weeks next month. Could you please tell us what we will need to bring to start this pensionado visa while we are there this time? We will be moving permanently down there later this spring but would sure like to start the process while we are there on this trip. I have the requirements but just do not know which ones we will need immediately. Could you share what you know about this?
Thanks Mary,
india

For sure you need this:

Birth certificates, federal and possibly local police clearance records, proof of pension (government records + bank statements). All notarized and certified by the Panamanian embassy. Upon arrival you should bring all your documents to a certified translator and go to a doctor to get a notice of good health.

Hi!
Contact Myra Ruzzi (1crisma@gmail.com) directly and she will be very specific on what you need to do.

Mary
www.whypanama.com

Thanks Ed. We just didnt want to pack anything more that what we would need on this trip. I have the list but do I need everything on it in order to get it started for pensionado? Guess we had better get on the stick. then. Thanks a bunch.

Thanks Mary, my husband sent off an email to Myra and we are waiting to hear back. Specific is what we need at this time.

If you are married, for sure you need a marriage certificate unless you are processing separately. If you don't have everything you need from your home country, then will not be able to initiate the process.

Originally Posted by india

Thanks Mary, my husband sent off an email to Myra and we are waiting to hear back. Specific is what we need at this time.

Hi Ed, we will bring it all down so we dont get surprised and delayed. We're on it! Thanks a bunch.