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anyone here done business with http://www.panamalaw.org/ ?. I am intressted in their services and i want to know if they are for real .
Gracias
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Hi
anyone here done business with http://www.panamalaw.org/ ?. I am intressted in their services and i want to know if they are for real .
Gracias
I have a great Law firm I have used. Soldeng on Avenue Cinqenta
If you go to their contact page they do have an address, and several phone #s to call, so it seems legit. Whether or not their services are of any good on the other hand, I can't answer that.
But I guess you could contact them to get a quote and then look into it deeper.
Panamalaw.org : Confirm the payment and get my order done ASAP.Originally Posted by JustWow
It's been 3 weeks I sent a few thousands dollars by wire and you keep telling me "we just sent a guy to the bank to check this out" (You open bank accounts for your clients and don't have internet banking yourself?) or "I will get back to you tomorrow"... or no reply at all.
My position: I trusted them 100% last month. Now...
Panamalaw.org Is A Complete SCAM Operation!
thinktwice,
Consider yourself lucky if they only got you for "a few thousand dollars". They are not even operating in Panama anymore, they left a few months ago and now say they are a Guatemalan law firm. Rubbish, try to find them listed as a law firm in Guatemala on any data base, you won't be able to because they are not lawyers, they are thieves.
I am a former "client" of theirs, what a nightmare! Not only did they steal the assets I wired to them, but after hundreds of e-mails, phone calls and demands made by REAL lawyers I flew to Panama and hired, they responded with threats (I'm talking DEATH threats) and intimidation.
I have financial enemies in the USA, which of course they were made aware of early on, because after all, as your "lawyers", they "claim" that the lawyer client relationship they have with you can protect you from your adversaries. NOT! What they do do with such information is use it to threaten you with, once you finally figure out that you have been stolen from and demand that they return your money.
Run away as fast as you can and consider what you have wired to them GONE, because it is!
chaos53
I find it a little bit suspicous, that the members that claimed to be scammed on this board have no track record and just joined.
I have followed this law firms website and had some transactions with them as well as others I known, they are a little slow, but I never heard this stuff before....
Never know I guess, but coming from new members, and with names like THINKTWICE and SCAMVICTIM...
I am suspicous at best regarding the legitamacey of there posts, and perhaps real motives, hope I am wrong, but very possiable that we should all at least consider.......
They are just real real slow like everthing else in Latin america, I did hear that complanenet before, but is not everthing slow in Latin America?
I am open minded and Perhaps they are gone bad, just that the last posts seem kinda hard to beleive, I mean really big time complaints, like "DEATH THREATS" what law firm would do that? ...
Just keep an open mind folks...
Take Care all....
Good points Bel-Air.
I'm sure the moderators could tell us if they are from the same I.P.
Bottom line is: they have NOT earned their "street cred" in this forum yet.
Matt
First of all, "Panama Legal" is not a law firm, they are an on line organized crime operation, at least that's what I know them to be, after they stole from me! They are not even in Panama.
When they were operating in Panama, they did have a Panamanian lawyer fronting for them named Gisela Martinez. Since fleeing to Guatemala and labeling themselves a Guatemalan law firm, under the threat of criminal prosecution by my REAL attorney in Panama, Gisela has stated to my lawyer in Panama, that she was also a victim, was unaware that her boss, an American expat named Ken Biderman and his fellow partner in crime Marcos Cutino, portrayed themselves to her as legitimate (which they most certainly are not) and that they left owing her money and "holding the bag". She has also offered to testify against her former "bosses" and assist my attorney in pursuing these two characters.
Secondly, my only "real motive" in posting the truth on this forum in response to comments made by thinktwice is to warn him and anyone else contemplating doing "business" with these people to do yourself a big favor and don't. My attorney in Panama has advised me that the chances of prevailing through the "legal process" in Guatemala against this bunch and ever seeing the money they stole from me again, is extremely remote at best.
You say you have had a good experience with "Panama/Guatemala Legal" in the past, congratulations! Consider yourself fortunate and if I were you I wouldn't push my luck and do any more.
Finally, I couldn't agree with you more, a legitimate law firm would not issue death threats, especially over the phone (my attorney has the tape of it) so what does that say about who and what these people really are?
chaos53
I posted on this forum since I tried to find information regarding PanamaLaw.org.
That is why I registered and replied to a 2008 thread found via Google.
scamvictim: Thanks for your feedback. I did not want to cry 'fraud' or 'scam' yet since I still give them a chance. (Hint, Hint... I'm sure they use web bots)
But please keep in touch. In case they don't cooperate, I might have an interesting project to make sure they don't fool with anybody else's money in the future.
I really question their ability to deliver death threats. If they would do that in this business, to the wrong person, they would get a reply far beyond their wildest imagination.
Well I guess we will have to wait and see what happens, since they are really a big name on the internet, but who knows I guess, time will tell...
Keep us posted guys, or anyone else that has any info on this site...
Thank all...
For the last few months or more, they have been bashing Panama on their site and instead praising Guatemala. Just check their site specially the news on the left column.
It's obvious that they have probably been exposed in Panama and have taken their business somewhere they aren't yet under the radar.
very very true HOSEM1...
funny coz they used to say Panama was so great bla bla bla...
Now they are saying bad things about Panama, and Gutuamala is better now, it is like shooting themselves in the foot, it makes them loose big time credibility if you ask me.
Just read this.. They never mentioned any of these things before about Panama when they were promoting it, why now? Big guess... heheheeh
Guatemala Banking Versus Panama Banking
Still they came out to say it first about banks lossing there bank secrect, and signing tax information sharring treaties, but how they started to run down Panama all of a sudden after they promoted the country as the messaih all these years was not good.
There trust agreements
And who in the hell would give them your money and put it in there name to save a bit of taxes and have secret banking? And at there high fee's? That would be very dangerous to do if you ask me, only drug laundered money would go for such a risky thing.
Read this...
Guatemala Banking
Should they not change there now now then to?
HOSEM1 (10-11-2009)
But after reading this thread I would thinktwice before sending them thousands of dollars. Why do that at all?
I should not let a law firm become signatory of my bank account and that way I do not have the urge to send them big bucks. I simply would send the money to to the bank instead.
---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------
And I'm not dealing with panamalaw.org/ anymore. I'm in business with pllawyers.net/ which according to my last contact with Guatemala is the company in charge in Panama now.
pllawyers.net/ do think Panama still is a much better place to protect assets than Guatemala is. And that discrepancy between pllawyers.net/ and panamalaw.org/ is a reassuring sign.
pplawyers.net is a brand new domain...
Record created on 18-Jun-2010. Record expires on 18-Jun-2010.
Yes, and their home page is not fancy, but the lawyer I'm dealing with is not brand new. For example is the female lawyer mentioned above in this thread working there.
Your "web site" was originally created on 09 April 2009, and consisting of TWO whole posts to date: Consecro Foundation: Panama Legal review (pllawyers.net/panamalaw.org) scam? The second post on your web site, dated 09 Sept 2009, says that you were still having "banking" issues with Panama Law/pllawyers.net. Note that to this day Panama Law claims that it can get you a bank account opened in Guatemala in 24 HOURS! NONSENSE!
Furthermore, the obvious lie here is that pllawyers.net did not even exist before 18 Jun 2009, when Gisela started it. Is she working there? You tell me Consecro Foundation, who are you "working" with there? The domain contact is listed as: GMS20@yahoo.com and the contact phone number is (507) 6617-5409, drop Gisela an e-mail or give her a phone call on her cell phone number above and ask her.
Gisela Martinez Saenz started pllawyers.net at virtually the same time that Ken Bidderman closed up "shop" for Panama Law in Panama City and fled to Guatemala to start back up there.
By the way, Consecro Foundation, have the boys in Guatemala got your "bank " account squared away yet? It's only been 18 MONTHS since your first post describing some "problem"!
I check the public registry in Panama:
There are no company with the name:
Panama Legal
PL Lawyer
PLLwayer
Check here: https://www.registro-publico.gob.pa
In other words it's not a "Law Firm", unless they refuse to display their proper name.
Best, Ed
PANAMA BANK GUIDE - LIST OF BANKS IN PANAMA
---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------
Even more funny is this, if you do a new whois on the domain:
Last Updated On:20-Oct-2009 06:47:49 UTC
Registrant Organization:Whois Privacy Protection Service, Inc.
So, now it's a private registration
Best wishes, Ed
Last edited by EdBowers; 10-21-2009 at 11:24 PM. Reason: typo
So ScamVictim how do I know you're not just a business enemy to the guys in Guatemala?
---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------
Everything Gisela Martinez has told me so far I have checked twice and I found that what she has told me is the truth.
For example the account were delayed because of a lousy bank contact in Panama. I've checked and double checked the bank contact through my other bank contacts in Europe and the banks European branch. Everything was in order.
I will now test an other bank. If I do not get an account I'll let you know.
After asking them if they were scam artists... I received QUICK different replies from another 'place' and email addresses.
The corporation is supposedly set up, they are waiting on internet banking... and after that they will send out the original documentation by courier.
BUT... wait! They want me to sign that "International Trust Agreement" I never asked for. I don't want to deal with them once the corporation is set up, right?
Here is the document:
Central American Legal, S.A.International Trust Agreement“ITA”
The undersigned (Trustor) individual hereby appoint Central American Legal, S.A.
Hereinafter referred as trustee located at Avenida Reforma 6-39 Zona 10, Centro Corporativo Guayacán Oficina 1203, Guatemala, Guatemala.
To act in all money matters situations, business investment, operations and legal representations in any and all national and or jurisdiction deemed appropriate and or necessary by trustee with the approval of the trustor for the purpose of legally protecting and preserving the trustor assets.
The Trustor and trustee agree to the following terms and conditions:Terms and conditions
1.Trustee agrees that all money transactions and or assets are derived from non – criminal activity and or business activity.
2.Trustor appoint Central American Legal, S.A. as trustee for a term of 100 years and to act in any and all legal and business capacity to protect this International Trust Agreement, hereinafter referred to as “ITA”.
3.Trustee is namely Central American Legal, S.A. and agrees to preserve, protect and defend the undersigned ITA trustor’ assets & or monies, including transfer of assets and or monies to any jurisdiction in the world as may be necessary and or appropriate to protect said assets.
4.The trustor may terminate this ITA with 30 days notice.
5.The Trustor have an absolute right to be informed of any and all bookkeeping and expenses within the ITA. And trustee agrees to provide bookkeeping as requested by trustor on behalf of this ITA.
Page 1 of 3
6.The trustor must authorize the trustee to make any investments of said assets; otherwise no annual interest shall be paid to this ITA.
7.The trustee may only invest ITA assets in secure and on financial institutions that earn annual interest of 6% and more per year. Trustee is required to provide all information and reasonable due diligence on behalf of the ITA financial & or asset investment.
8.Trustor have the authority to instruct the ITA trustee to send or wire money, pay any person and or entity and to do so by instructions in writing for all money transactions the trustee shall use procedures designed to protect the ITA from fraud & or theft. Thus the trustee shall create a procedure to protect the ITA prior to release of any and or all assets within the ITA.
9.This ITA consist of a cash recall investment without interest at this time, in the amount of American $80,000.00, prior to commissions and legal fees due to pay for this ITA which is 3% of all incoming funds received, plus $6,000.00 that is payable to Central American Legal, S.A. and or Cutino International, S.A..
10.This ITA may be modified in any and all aspects by signed amendments here to; including increase or decrease monies & or assets & or to do any legal act that benefits this ITA, but shall require the signature of either of the trustor, excluding emergency assets & or money transfers to any jurisdiction selected by the trustee, with the approval of the Trustor for protecting said ITA assets & or money herein. The trustor shall be notified in the event of any emergency asset and or money transfers made by the Trustee in accordance with the provisions of this paragraph. In the event that the trustee cannot contact either of the trustor within twenty-four hours (24 hours), either by phone or via e-mail, in an urgent financial situation, the trustee shall proceed to do any act to protect the ITA monies/assets, and thereafter notify the trustor of the location and or jurisdiction that the assets/monies were transferred to and the opinion from the trustee as to what were his reasons to transfer asset & or monies in accordance with the provisions of this paragraph.
11.This ITA shall be placed under Judicial Seal to further protect the assets of the Trust and the privacy of the Trustor.
12.Mr. XXX, will have sole control of the funds deposited into the account open under Cutino International/Mr. XXX, including all transfers in and out, the Trustor will take written direction, or by any other means accepted by both parties.
13.The trustor and trustee agree that all monies and or assets, including any and all terms & conditions herein, that this ITA shall remain absolutely secret. And for protection of the ITA and its financial ability to function herein as an ITA with secrecy its assigned that the trustor appoint the following persons to assume the position of trustor herein, if both said trustor signed below shall die or become mentally or physically unable to authorize & or perform their duties as trustor, for reasons stated herein section II, namely in priority:Secret Agreement
Page 2 of 3
NAME / ADDRESS / PHONE NUMBERS
(a)_______________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________
14.This ITA may be modified as needed from time to time as deemed appropriate or necessary by the trustee with the knowledge and agreement of the Trustor, or in compliance with laws of any jurisdiction, as needed to protect said ITA and trustor. The ITA is the legal owner of said assets and moneys from this day October 20, 2009 until cancelled by the trustor for said assets or withdraws by the trustor signed below. Terms accepted by signature below.
Trustor signature_x__________________________________ Date: October 20, 2009________
Name Print: ____MR. XXX_______________________________________
__________________________________________________ ___________________________
Address and Phone:
________xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx___________ ________
Approved by: _______________________________________Date: ____________________
Trustee, Denisse Samantha Arias Girón
Central American Legal,S.A.
Avenida Reforma 6-39 Zona 10, Centro Corporativo Guayacán, Oficina 1203 Guatemala, Guatemala.
Accepted by:
Marcos Cutino, Chairman
Cutino International / Latin American Legal
Date:
Page 3 of 3
I have never ordered their Guatemala Trust Agreement Banking... but they still want me to sign that crap.
I prefer having a personal account over signing such a ridiculous document giving them all that power. With a bearer share corporation, there is no such thing as a Trust Agreement, fees, etc. You get the corporation, the bank account and it's over. You can fire the signatories at any time.
I would put in another trustee before signing. Someone you trust!
I won't sign that document at all... they will refund or open personal bank accounts. I don't trust them at all.
If I did not want ITA at first, why would they want me to sign it now? The only thing that will happen, is that once the 'ITA' receive extra funds, they will leave with all the money and I will lose even more cash.
They don't care about how much you wire first... the only thing they want is further control, information, control over the funds and then you're screwed.
Here are the fees from the page:
Fees – The fees for the Trust Agreement Banking are $6000, which includes an anonymous corporation (we use corporations formed in the same country as the bank for simplicity and this does not weaken the structure at all), the international trust agreement including a distress clause, and a bank account. There is an additional 4% charged on all funds deposited into the account.
For the "Guatemala Trust Agreement Banking"
I did not order that. Check the difference on the Ecuador page. There is big difference between having a corporation with a bank account and signing a Trust Agreement between a law firm and you to protect your identify from the bank... with all the related fees.
The fee of 4 % is huge...
Panama Legal aka Guatemala Legal, has been bashing Panama since approximately 20 Jun 2009, which by the way just happens to coincide with the date they fled Panama for Guatemala full time.
Let me take everyone for a little stroll down memory lane. Panama legal appeared on the internet on 24 Aug 2006, operating at an address listed as: El Cangrejo, F. Street, Building No. 13, Panama City, Panama; probably, initially operating out of Ken Bidderman’s, the company owner’s, apartment. By the way, it is against the law in Panama for a non-Panamanian to “own” a law firm there.
Panama Legal then opened an office staffed by two young Panamanian female attorneys: Gisela Martinez Saenz and Gilma Chiari Guerra at the following address: Edificio Magna Corp., 5th Floor, Office 511, Ave. Manuel Maria Icaza, Y Calle 51, Panama City, Panama. This is also the same address still listed on their Martindale-Hubbell page, which in theory serves to verify their legal credentials. At least to the extent that these two “front lawyers” are actually attorneys.
Panama Legal then rapidly and aggressively instituted a massive SEO program to promote their web site, from Aug 06 to Apr 08 alone, they made 114 changes and additions to their web site. Admittedly, their web site is extensive; someone has clearly spent a lot of time and money marketing this “business”.
In May of 2008, Panama Legal moved in to impressive new offices in the Global Bank Building, specifically: Calle 50, Torre Global Bank, 18th Floor, Office 18-02, Panama City, Panama. "Business" must have been good!
In Sep 08 my partner and I began negotiations with Gisela and her "paralegal" Ken, to put together an offshore asset management program in accordance with all of the capability promoted on their web site. After several phone calls and e-mails they "recommended" that we utilize their "affiliate" Guatemalan law firm.
We were then instructed by Panama Legal to wire funds to a Guatemalan "law firm" named Latin American Legal. Which we FOOLISHLY did.HUGE mistake!
After the "Trust Agreement" was funded, we were then turned over to another of their "affiliate law firms" Cutino International, run by a shadowy figure named Marcos Cutino.
After nearly eight months and hundreds of e-mails and phone calls, it became painfully apparent that they NEVER had any intention of following through with ANY of their promises and had stolen the funds wired to them!
Now we are into the spring of 2009. Demands made by REAL attorneys we hired in the USA, Mexico, Guatemala and Panama, to return the funds, were met with a DEATH threat and an invitation to come to Guatemala to "straighten things out". I might be an idiot for ever letting them have any control of any amount of money, but I'm not stupid enough to "meet" with them in Guatemala! Wouldn't that be a sweet deal for them, I "disappear" and they still have the money, NOT!
So, then it's off to Panama, to meet with our attorney there, Jaime A. Jacome De La Guardia of JACOME DE LA GUARDIA & ASOCIADOS. Jaime by the way is the former head of the Policia Technica Judicial, which is the Panamanian counterpart to the US FBI. Ask him what he knows and thinks about Panama Legal and Gisela. His phone number is: 507-265-0647 in Panama or you can e-mail him at: jacomeasoc@hotmail.com. By the way, as a REAL lawyer you can also find him in any number of legal data bases or better yet just Google him, unlike trying to find out who runs Panama Legal, Latin American Legal, Cutino International, all of whom "claim" to be law firms and or lawyers!
So now Jaime schedules a meeting with Gisela at her office in the Global Bank Building in May of 2009, he specifically requested that the owner of Panama Legal, Ken Bidderman, be present at the meeting. Ken Bidderman refused to attend. Gisela had a criminal defense attorney accompany her to the meeting. When confronted by Jaime with the documentary evidence of this scam, Gisela claimed to also be a victim of the “boys” from Guatemala, stated that she had no idea that they were operating in this manner and that she would fully cooperate with Jaime in his filing of civil and criminal charges against her former “associates”.
In Jun of 2009 Panama Legal fled to Guatemala, Ken Bidderman started his campaign of trashing Panama, Marcos Cutino posted on his web site that he was no longer doing business in Guatemala and was moving to Russia and Gisela Martinez Saenz started up her lame pllawyers.net web site, which by the way she has only added content to three times, the last time being 12 Oct 2009. Four times counting the 20 Oct 2009 removal of her contact information from the domain registry! Her offices are still located in the Global Bank Building; I guess those leases are not easy to get out of.
Well that’s pretty much the Bad and the Ugly of it (there is no Good). At this point, I have resigned myself to the fact that I have been SCAMMED. Could I spend a bunch of money having Gisela disbarred and thrown in jail in Panama? According to Jaime, YES. Would that get the money back? NO. Traveling to Guatemala to “meet” with these thieves would be even dumber than ever having “trusted” them with any assets in the first place. Instead, I have decided to dedicate myself to letting the world know about this nightmare and hopefully make it as difficult as possible for these criminals to continue to operate.
And there are a thing that speaks in your favor and that is that these guys are using bots and are SEO-experts. They must know what we are writing here and has chosen not to answer.
Before the Guatemala trip they always responded to accusations on the net and that is why I chose to go public on our site.
thinktwice,
It really does not matter whether you sign an ITA with them or not! They sent us a similar agreement which after weeks and weeks of back and forth, they agreed to the changes we insisted on. We then signed, notarized and overnight delivered back to them for their signature, the "agreed" upon ITA. Guess what, they NEVER signed and executed the ITA! Why should they? At this point the already had the funds.
You are correct, it's all just a matter of stalling, delaying and trying to gather as much information about you and your financial/legal affairs as possible, so that when you finally figure out what has happened, they can then, not only just keep the funds, but effectively threaten you with exposure to any adversaries you may have! Which is exactly what they did when we told them that we just wanted to sever our relationship with them and have them wire the money back to our attorney.
If you have wired them money, it is GONE!
They are now saying on there web site for the last 4 months that Panama is no good for anything any more, and that all of a sudden
Ecuador is better now...
Why Ecuador for Banking?
and Guatemala is better now..
Guatemala Banking
They used to say Panama was so great, now they say it is good for nothing and why Guatemala is so much better now...
Guatemala Banking Versus Panama Banking
I was thinking of getting a second pass port from them, which they talk about here, but now, no way, unless all these accusations do not come out as true... The program I was thinking of getting is here...
Asset Protection Banking & Brokerage Accounts With A Second Citizenship
and here...
Second Passport, Second Citizenship, Diplomatic Passport and General Consul Programs
Now this trust agreements they are offering is very dangerous, if you do this you might as well say goodbye to your money, as you loose all control of your money and everthing else...
Read it Here
International Trust Agreement Banking
and here
Mexico International Trust Agreement Banking
I wonder if they will be brought down if this is all true, keep us posted guys as to what happens and is the outcome of all this...
They used peoples hatred toward the west and western taxes as well as the fear of assett losses to ex wives etc so you would give them there money as they would protect it, in the end, maybe they will be the ones that will really take your money if this all turns out to be true.
I must admit, the people posting here know alot of info...
I want to watch this one closely to see how it all turns out...
They are now saying on there web site for the last 4 months that Panama is no good for anything any more, and that all of a sudden
Ecuador is better now...
Why Ecuador for Banking?
and Guatemala is better now..
Guatemala Banking
They used to say Panama was so great, now they say it is good for nothing and why Guatemala is so much better now...
Guatemala Banking Versus Panama Banking
I was thinking of getting a second pass port from them, which they talk about here, but now, no way, unless all these accusations do not come out as true... The program I was thinking of getting is here...
Asset Protection Banking & Brokerage Accounts With A Second Citizenship
and here...
Second Passport, Second Citizenship, Diplomatic Passport and General Consul Programs
Now this trust agreements they are offering is very dangerous, if you do this you might as well say goodbye to your money, as you loose all control of your money and everthing else...
Read it Here
International Trust Agreement Banking
and here
Mexico International Trust Agreement Banking
I wonder if they will be brought down if this is all true, keep us posted guys as to what happens and is the outcome of all this...
They used peoples hatred toward the west and western taxes as well as the fear of assett losses to ex wives etc so you would give them there money as they would protect it, in the end, maybe they will be the ones that will really take your money if this all turns out to be true.
I must admit, the people posting here know alot of info...
I want to watch this one closely to see how it all turns out...
BEL-AIR,
That's exactly what they did to me. Again just contact my Panamanian attorney as I mentioned in an earlier post:
"So, then it's off to Panama, to meet with our attorney there, Jaime A. Jacome De La Guardia of JACOME DE LA GUARDIA & ASOCIADOS. Jaime by the way is the former head of the Policia Technica Judicial, which is the Panamanian counterpart to the US FBI. Ask him what he knows and thinks about Panama Legal and Gisela. His phone number is: 507-265-0647 in Panama or you can e-mail him at: jacomeasoc@hotmail.com. By the way, as a REAL lawyer you can also find him in any number of legal data bases or better yet just Google him, unlike trying to find out who runs Panama Legal, Latin American Legal, Cutino International, all of whom "claim" to be law firms and or lawyers!"
He has all the documentation and information necessary to confirm what these characters are.
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