MRWOOHOO

Another thing to remember that could have a dramatic effect on real estate prices in Panama are the ever-changing immigration laws. I have been living here for almost six months, minus 80 hours in Costa Rica, and there are new immigration laws going into effect, AGAIN!!!!!! I truly truly hope that Panama does not shoot itself in the foot by turning resident visa's and the 90 day rule into a hardship. The country could quite literally wreck the property values by increasing the amounts for residency or turning the 90 day tourist visa into 30 day. Almost all of Latin America is growing in popularity and has a good future if they want to. Some of the other countries in Latin America are much more liberal with immigration and are not harassing tourists. Panama is a very small part of Latin America.

walkabout

Anyone have any idea how much houses/condos sell for below listing price 5% - 10%?Do you make an offer or is it normal to pay full listing price? I am just trying to get a idea what price range I should be looking in. Has the RE market slowed down due to the US melt down?

MRWOOHOO

My suggestion is to come here and live for awhile before making a purchase. Almost everything and everybody (excluding me) on the internet is saying that purchasing in Panama is positive and I am not sure how honest it is? Currently there is a flood of properties hitting the marketplace. Are they going to sell? Are they going to be rented? Is Panama going to make visa's so difficult they wreck their own market? I would honestly wait a little bit. There is ALLOT of stuff for sale. ALLOT of new construction has come to a halt. I don't think anybody can say for sure what is going to truly happen? If I made money on advertising developers/developments I would tell you now is a great time to buy.

bob1414

My opinion only --- forget Panana City as an investment or a place to live unless you want to live in a large, somewhat congested city. For people looking for a more "exotic" lifestyle and something different from your current lifestyle (if you currently live in a first world environment) consider any other area that has people - small communities, both coasts, the hills, along the rivers, etc. Each area of the country has it's own beautiful things to offer. You can live close to wonderful surfing, great fishing, exciting hiking and beautiful scenery is everywhere. You can have spectacular gardens, make new friends, learn to eat new types of food, learn a new language, etc. etc. Land and building purchase are a good investment and anything is possible. There are certain areas that have skyrocketed in value and now they may not be the great investment for someone wanting to flip a property, but these areas are still a great investment if you want a wonderful place to call your own. These opinions are formed by my experiences in Panama for the past 8 years.

MRWOOHOO

Excellent advice from somebody that does live here. That is what it truly takes to make a good decision. Unless you are from Panama you are a foreigner and this is not like your home country. You really won't know what you want from looking at it on the internet or even a 2 week stay.

zog

Well, I am looking for something to rent out for income. What is the rental market like? Anyone here own a place for rent that they are able to rent regularly? I was going to hold off on buying two properties because of the immigration visa issue. But would still like to get one place in Panama City. I was planning to have it managed and rented out per day and an apartment centrally located for access to all the bars, clubs and casinos. Does anyone still think it is a bad idea? I am not worried about an apartment losing some of its value. But I was assuming that something centrally located would be more likely to retain value and would be more likely to rent out. Am I wrong?

MRWOOHOO

I would ask these questions, do you have experience in this field? Are you comfortable with the country's direction? Do you have a trusted person that will be renting out the unit for you? Will the current rate of inflation (Panama uses the dollar and inflation is a problem here as well) nullify the rate of investment return as opposed to investing in gold or silver? Location in the city is very key. I personally like El Cangrejo for cost and location. You can still walk to the Bank District and even Calle Uruguay is really not that much further. Just some things to think about.

zog

The location I have chosen is the one you mentioned.

As for renting, well, I know of someone i trust well enough - he gets 20% - and that is OK by me if he gets me close to the return I am looking for. But I only have a little experience of renting and that was renting out rooms rather than a whole property.

Gold and silver are good long term investments but not good for regular income, and it is regular income I am looking for. Having said that, if I could have bought in the late 90s when Gordon Brown informed the world markets that he was going to sell a lot of the UKs gold reserves it would have been nice to buy then and be a millionaire now :-)

I am holding off on buying a second property to see how things go with the first, and to give the stock market time to recover - my stocks and shares took a real pounding recently and I want to give the market a chance to recover some of its value. I also want to hold off on the second apartment because I want to see how the visa laws go. I would be able to use the one apartment as a holiday place by booking time in it or using time that is unbooked.

But just out of interest does anyone rent in Panama and do they get a regular return from doing so? The rental returns look good in principle and far better than the UK for the price.

Tim

I am traveling to Panama City 2 Aug 08.
My questions and my position are identical to yours.
I would be glad to share my experience when I return.
PM me for personal e-mail address.

MRWOOHOO

I have to say that it does seem like the interest in Panama is still pretty strong. I meet allot of people from all over the place. The people coming here do have money and are looking to invest. I feel that many people (internationally) are probably a little bit scared about their loss of purchasing power and investment return at home. Let's all hope that Panama does the right thing in regards to immigration.

MRWOOHOO

Is it just me or is there a "Boat Load" of available real estate inventory out there? The real tell-tale sign of somebody looking to dump a condo is the lack of any furniture and especially lack of a stove or fridge. Starting to see ALLOT of high-end condo rental's. We shall see if they start coming down in rental price? Another interesting thing I notice is that people with money that are coming down to Panama are not always renting expensive accommodations while they are here. Inexpensive hotels are fine for most people. If you are going to buy take your time and look around. Actually spend time in the town or neighborhood you want to purchase. Travel around the country as well to get comfortable. There will always be another "castle in the sky" or "castle in the cow-field".

GordonS

Speaking of rentals - My wife and I are looking for a home to rent from mid-December to mid-January close to the beaches (Gorgona -> Playa Blanca area). If anyone knows of something with at least 2 bedrooms, fully furnished, please PM.

__________________
Gordon and Randy,
Canada

guillegp

MrT

I am looking for a cheap studio appartment in Panama City. I would like to find something in a "safe" area that is about $400 per month everything included. I also need internet access (I expect to pay extra). I plan on staying for 3 months. Would this be a difficult deal to find in Panama City?

Also, are there other cities in Panama that might be cheaper to live in, but also have high speed internet and public transportation?

Thanks,
Joe

MRWOOHOO

Hey MrT, "I pity the fool". I apologize, I could not help it. Rent in Panama City is not cheap. In a half-way decent neighborhood $400/month may get you a bedroom with your own bath, maybe? You will find there are really cheap neighborhoods in Panama City if you are not worried about your safety and welfare. There are a decent amount of buses all over the country and taxi's are really cheap. You can rent a house in allot of towns outside of Panama City for that money and have access to broadband Internet. I would suggest coming down and checking out the entire country before you decide on such a longterm basis

MRWOOHOO

Link:
http://www.dailyreckoning.com/Issues/2008/DR082708.html

Here is an article about 1/3rd of the way down under "Don't Think About White Elephants" Wednesday August 27th, 2008, talking about Dubai. It seemed at the very least, thought-provoking. Especially if you are in the market to purchase real estate.

fyi - I had heard about the "Russian thing" (happening here) about a month back in passing by a somewhat intoxicated real estate developer that was making a big sale locally.

fxtrader

A couple of friends of mine pay $600 a month rent for a 3 bedroom house in Altos de Maria. BEAUTIFUL out there! I'd live there in a heartbeat if I didn't have to be in the city daily. IT's about 1.5 hours out of Panama City.

And yeah, I'll just piggyback on what you said. Rent IS NOT cheap in Panama City. I pay more for rent that I EVER thought I would coming down to Panama. I was floored by the real estate prices in the city.

__________________
I put the 'fun' in dysfunctional

MRWOOHOO

I was talking with a real estate agent two days ago and she mentioned that rental prices are coming down. Many people had purchased "blocks" of units with the intention of flipping, OOOooooppps! Now they are on the rental market and have dropped $200 per month in hopes of getting renters. It seems as though the high-end rental prices have come down but the low-end one-bedroom places have come up. Economy always dictates in the end.

fxtrader

Just my luck. I get locked in when things are at their most expensive... real estate, business deals, girlfriends...

__________________
I put the 'fun' in dysfunctional