MRWOOHOO

I'm not Kitty (lol), but one thing I did find out was forget about having a retail shop but any and all services are open game for the most part. Panama is a country on the brink of being truly world class but it is missing services big time. Any computer geeks want to make money, this is the place. Much is being done with pencil and paper. There is allot of money in Panama waiting to be spent because of the lack of services. You can also open a bar or restaurant, the local permit can cost between $5-50K.

Nosfer

What was you saying with "any computer geeks want to make money"? are there many computer specialists to hire for pretty low money or, there is need of a lot of computer specialists in panama?

Lalaguayaba

There is no recognizable computer infrastructure like in the the U.S. or Europe; record-keeping is still done w/pencil and paper, researching is still done by hand, etc. Not only are there not a lot of computers, there are not a lot of people who know how to use them--and not a lot who can pay for lessons. Stores, shops, restaurants, etc. all run on pen/paper (that I've seen--I'm sure a few of them use desktops at some point.) Int'l hotels and the like will have basic comps for their desk operations, and for their business centers.

If one was sufficiently enterprising, I imagine that one could find a position as a systems administrator, DB specialist, i.e. any position that involves computer-language heavy duties, and you could probably name a decent salary as well (not as great as in the U.S. or Europe, but spectacular for Panama.)

Dell has a huge call-center there, they probably need more than their fair share of 'geeks' to keep their ops running.


Cheers.

coolandhot

You could probably make some money selling computers there, especially if you could find a way to help people get financing (the way car sellers get people to buy cars in the U.S.).

Nosfer

well, i think computers are not too expensive. a panamanian could afford one. you could make a business like selling second hand computers to those that don't afford a new, highly performant one. maybe founding a company that could teach panamanians more about the use of computers and internet. this forums should be really overcrowded if something like that will happen.

Lalaguayaba

As always, I seem to be the real rain on the parade...
Sure, even to someone making $25k U.S. annually, a computer is not out of reach; I don't know what that is for your part of Italy, but perhaps, like your American counterparts, you have to ability to finance a computer? Yes? Perfect--so you can pay $10 a month for a few years to pay for your bits and bytes; but even a second-hand computer at $150 US is far too much to pay for the avg. Panamanian, $10 a month--maybe, but that is a stretch.

The company that teaches Panamanians to use a computer? When will you teach these folks? When they are schoolchildren? No? As adults? Are they going to pay for these classes? How much? That's the question; they can't afford the computers, they can't afford the classes, they can't afford the internet. That is why it still remains a 'third world country with first world amenities.' Because those with the funds will import what they want, and not what the populace needs to advance. If the mass of the Panamanian populace 'advanced,' then it would not be anywhere as cheap as everyone from the U.S. would prefer that it stay.

All the folks that I know in Panama who have computers have moved back to the country after spending all their school years in the U.S. or Europe; they got their degrees and made $$ working overseas before 'moving back home to help Panama advance.' Most of them have expressed varying degrees of despondency over the lack of technological education available to schoolchildren.

Is it a problem? Maybe.
Do you still want to retire to a relatively inexpensive country? Yes? Then don't buy a computer for anyone but yourself...

Cheers.

Nosfer

government programs. that would do the trick. sooner or later they'll buy computers for schools, companies, and they'll pay well for someone that deals with something like that you just have to be there when they offer this kind of deal.

Lalaguayaba

I admire your hope for the future of gov't programs, but if I saw the Panamanian gov't actually spending $$ on its citizens, instead of its politicians, I might have to move back to the U.S.!
Please spend your next vacation down here, and get a first-hand view of what the gov't provides, and then fails to provide for its people. While it may not be as currently corrupt as other L.A. or S.A. countries, the history of an easily bribable gov't continues--perhaps you remember Noriega just two decades ago?

It would be lovely if the $100 laptop program were initiated here, then at least when Panamanians leave to make their fortunes in the U.S. or Europe, they wouldn't have to waste their time learning to use computers first. As gauche as that statement may sound, its alarmingly true; the D.C. area absorbs a lot of immigrants every year into the local economy, and our free basic computer skills classes are always packed across the board. Some of the kids that I met from Panama were familiar with what computers looked like from t.v. and peeking into IT cafes, but had never actually used on before.

One Laptop per Child (OLPC), a low-cost, connected laptop for the world's children's education
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$100_laptop


Cheers.

coolandhot

Supply and demand says that in a free market people will go to places that have jobs and employers will go to where people need jobs. It's dangerous to have the government interfere to much in the natural process of supply and demand.

Lalaguayaba

Um, well--yes, that is kind of true...but we weren't talking about where the jobs are, or how to create them...or about jobs at all, actually.

We were discussing how to get computers and computer education into Panama at reasonable prices...

And gov'ts do mess about w/jobs all the time in ways that are considered 'helpful'; welfare, workfare, unemployment insurance, and tax breaks for all of the above, and for companies that will accept workers coming from aid programs. Check it out...

Cheers.

seashore

There are some people who think those social programs (welfare and all) are harmful. I'm not really one of them, though. This is off topic, I guess.

coolandhot

Lalaguayaba, you were talking about how D.C. and the United States in general "absorbs a lot of immigrants every year into the local economy" meaning they go there for the jobs, and you want the government in Panama to facilitate the process with $100 laptops. That's what I was responding to.

Anyway, it's all good.

GordonS

Interesting concepts here. Not that I am a Luddite ( Luddite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) but I suppose one might ask the question: will introduction of modern technology result in the greater happiness of Panamanians in general? This question does not follow the current thread theme and might be best for a whole different discussion thread. Sort of like "should the Amazon be brought into the 21st Century" Maybe we need "reservations" where technology and it's results (often bad) have not gotten a stranglehold. I work for a very high technology company and questions do arise among my colleagues about the price of progress. Wonder if Panama would survive a devastating global warming. Canada might not since we are now far too dependant on technology.

__________________
Gordon and Randy,
Canada

Lalaguayaba

Um, not all good--not even close...please go back and read the msg immediately previous to mine...
My comment was to Nosfer's post about the Panamanians buying computers; it had nothing to do with the Panamanian gov't buying anything for the ppl, or any form of gov't support for technology education. The $100 laptop would be within the purchasing arena of the avg. (read:fairly poor) Panamanian; a stretch to be sure, but far cheaper than the usual $1200 laptop that most ppl think of when it comes to mind.

The goal is not to rely on any form of gov't support, but to make the actual machine cheap enough for children in the developing world.

Pt.II; Facilitate the process? Ease the way for technologically skilled Panamanians to come to the U.S.? Oh my...that's crazy talk! To actually think that Panama would educate its populace so that would be assimilated more easily into the U.S...that's a laugh.
My point was that if cheap computers existed in Panama, then they would not have to leave in order to get a better education--it would already exist in cheap access to technology.

That's what I was responding to...

Cheers.

expatplayer

That's interesting. Of course, there are small communities all over the world that reject technology. I think that technology is important to combat poverty.

Lalaguayaba

I like to think that there is some sort of balance; but since when does an easy-to-use spreadsheet program help someone who doesn't have consistently clean water? A techno collapse would sink the billion or so of the Earth's population that thinks chickens come wrapped in plastic, veggies come with numerical stickers, and that plastic is G-d--those who would freak out w/o constant electricity, cable tv, central aircon/heating, water from pipes instead of a stream, etc.
There are at least 3 billion ppl on this planet that really wouldn't even notice if the rest of 'us' just simply disappeared.

I love to think that technology is 'helping the world' in some way or another, but the Luddite groups are at least mostly self-sustaining; they are not directly contributing to the problems of waste management, recycling, water reclamation, etc.--all the 'problems created by technology.'

Okay...new thread later!

Cheers.

MRWOOHOO

Good explanations Lalaguayaba, the Panamanian Fed govt really does not care all that much for it's citizens but the local govts seem to do more. When I posted earlier in regards to computers it is a matter of getting people that know how to use them into Panama. You will not make anything trying to sell them, not sure of anybody that can compete with the "Free Trade Zone" prices. Like Lalaguayaba stated, if anybody is good with databases, you can do very well for yourself.

expatplayer

Good point. It made me laugh.

I suppose technology may do just as much harm as good, or perhaps even more harm than good.